T-Pain Is On A Boat: Performance Rating Systems (was RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb sailboat)

Wednesday, October 7, 2009

Performance Rating Systems (was RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb sailboat)

Geez.a performance rating system.I suppose we could, but in going that
direction it seems we are running even more risk of being liable for claims
we make.

I mean, so we come up with such a rating system as you say, and assuming
some or most of us use it, then one or more of us start making claims that
our approach meets the worst conditions and range requirements.

Yet the truth could be that these claims weren't proven or weren't
independently verified to be true.

So now some impatient newbie jumps in here, duplicates the setup, dies at
sea because he thought the system was capable of "Rob's Level 1
victory-at-sea 200-mile" performance, but instead he ended up on the rocks
or capsized. What have we accomplished? Who authorizes the rating system
and proves a setup meets it?

I think that it's best here to instead educate as we've been doing and
either discourage those who are over their heads or send them to
professionals.

But I'm willing to hear the arguments.

Bottom line is that those who modify boats should know the requirements for
their applications.

I helped build a 40ft twin-engine steamboat several years ago with a friend.
We followed no set formula and yet we knew what had to be done in which way
for safety and performance. We knew that this boat would be largely a fair
weather, short range cruiser and yet we wanted certain levels of safety and
performance beyond this to allow longer, more harrowing trips, say, in the
San Juan Islands of Washington. But we didn't dream that this boat would
ever attempt the Columbia River Bar! So we didn't make it so it could. We
had no instructions, no guidelines and certainly no rating system to follow.
My biggest regret in this was that we didn't have a professional electrician
wire the boat up as I ended up doing so and didn't convince the owner to use
better batteries and bigger cables for the inverter.

I'm open minded on this, but we already have an informal rating system of
sorts:

. Small, low voltage electrics (e.g. minn kota style), inboard or
outboard --- typically under 12ft craft

. Larger, low voltage electrics --- up to 20ft craft, local cruising

. Medium voltage, low capacity, 3-10HP electrics --- up to 30ft
craft, local cruising and fair weather

. Medium voltage, medium capacity, 3-10HP electrics --- as above,
but able to do 20-60mi on a charge, fair weather

. Medium voltage, large capacity, 3-10HP electrics --- as above, but
600ah+ of capacity and able to do 70-100mi on a charge, fair weather

. And on and on.

There are lots of categories and dimensions you could come up with.but I
wonder why the need to formalize this.

Electric propulsion or even hybrid electric does not make sense for all
applications (size, weather, range, etc).

We never said it would and don't.

Let's just continue to be honest about the merits and costs of going
electric or hybrid.

Thanks again-

-Myles

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Rob Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 1:41 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb sailboat

Myles , is there any chance of working out a rating system , for the
different conditions our systems , whatever they be , are used in ?.
Just so that people can know what would be appropriate to them.
I would love to put something like the Hybrid Marine system in my boat , I
hate diesels too , but they (Hybrid Marine) aren't ready , and aren't proven
, so I'll skip them for now.
But if their system (or one similar)can be retrofitted to the Lombardini in
the future , and is proven reliable , then I'll go for it.
The bloke who is doing the repower for me is more than happy to go hybrid ,
he showed me the Vetus system , but its just too big , far too long , for
me.
He is used to putting in generator systems too , he has done for years on
fishing and cray boats , but it is always diesel , never petrol.
I think I should defend the old timers here too , they are more than willing
to change , if it will improve their safety , in often brutal conditions.
In my case , my boat has been known to take on a lot of green water , and
just keep going.
Green water coming right over the cabin , in to the cockpit.
The engine half submerged in water , and still not missing a beat.
Generators on the deck are simply completely out of the question.
A generator in the cabin is out too .
Batteries would have to be in a waterproof case , with positive ventilation.
But my requirement is not the same as others , we all have different
situations and requirements , so is there a way of setting up some sort of
rating system ?.
In regard to batteries , yes , a lot of people do , and will continue to use
cheap lead acid batteries , and a lot of people will continue to use petrol
power on their boats .
But the Coast Guard figures show that its batteries , and petrol that are
at the basis of a lot of boating problems , often combined with stupidity of
course.
Safety has to be the number one priority , we need to keep working towards
that.
Regards Rob J.
--- On Thu, 8/10/09, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net
<mailto:matwete%40comcast.net> > wrote:

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