Thursday, January 31, 2019

[Electric Boats] Re: FS: Ray Electric Explorer

 

Thanks for your input, Ken.

Your experience lines up with most of the results that have been reported by various members in this group for the 10 years that I've been participating in the discussions here. That said, my 30' ketch with 10,000# displacement draws about 1488w at 4.4 kts. (about 5mph) which translates to 19 nm (22 mi.) range with my 8kWh (160Ah x 50v) LiFePO4 battery pack (80% usable). I have posted measured performance data a number of times that supports these numbers.

However, the linked sale listing mentioned a 70 mile range at 5mph in a 21' launch with Ray Electric outboard conversion. That claim could be possible, the questions that I asked of the seller will help confirm that claim.

Fair winds and smooth seas,
Eric
1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30, 5.5 kW drive, 8kWh battery pack
Marina del Rey, CA

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Wednesday, January 30, 2019

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: FS: Ray Electric Explorer

 

I have a 17' canoe that can do 5.2 mph using a 0.6 hp 12v electric motor with a 5" pitch prop (About 450 Watts or 35 amps)
To run that craft at that speed for 14 hours would require about 650 Amp Hours of available storage. or about  6 - 8 golf cart batteries.
I actually carry two golf cart batteries and 300 watts of solar panels, so I can run 5 hours no problem.

Most likely my motor controller would burn out about an hour into that run at that speed (wide open throttle) if I didn't stop for 5 minutes every hour to let the control board relays cool off.

If I am content to go 4 mph, then I only consume 300 watts/25 amps and can run as long as the sun is shining plus an additional 3 hours after dark...

I have a 24 foot pontoon boat that can run 5.1 mph using two 1.2 hp 24v electric motors with 4.5" pitch props that burns about 1,100 watts per motor (2200 watts total to maintain that speed) That would consume about 31,000 watt hours for a 14 hour run. That would require about 50 of those golf cart batteries (about 1.5 tons) to maintain that speed. 

If I am content to scoot along at 3 mph, my consumption per motor drops to 300 watts (600 total).  My 1800 watt solar array keeps up with that, no problem, and I can go all day when the sun is out and have cruising times of 10 hours. (30 mile range) for a delightful quiet day on the river.

In other words, if you adjust your expectation of travel speeds, you can get to where you are going (eventually) with exponentially less storage and power requirements..

Thanks

Ken Cooke
KY River









On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 2:11 AM ewdysar ewdysar@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

nice looking boat. you can go 14 hours at 5mph on a single charge? what batteries make up your battery pack? do you know how much energy your motor draws (in watts or amps) at your 5mph cruising speed?

Eric

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Posted by: Ken Cooke <ken.cooke@canewoods.com>
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Tuesday, January 29, 2019

[Electric Boats] Re: FS: Ray Electric Explorer

 

nice looking boat. you can go 14 hours at 5mph on a single charge? what batteries make up your battery pack? do you know how much energy your motor draws (in watts or amps) at your 5mph cruising speed?

Eric

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[Electric Boats] FS: Ray Electric Explorer

 

It's mine and it's on Tampa area Craigslist: https://tampa.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=ray%20electric%20explorer&sort=rel


John Clay

Tallahasse, Florida

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Sunday, January 27, 2019

Re: [Electric Boats] Ground wire sizing

 

Hi Brian,

The N.E.C. says one size under is good for your shore power. Understand the N.E.C. does not cover your boat
 specifically, just electrical installation in general. 

consider each system as its own system. this is why:

1. when connected to shore power only the shore power will go to ground.
2. the other systems (DC) are grounded for lightning not for a power grounding path.

Two schools of thought on grounding your system as a "Faraday cage" for lightning are considered  by the pros.

one is don't!! unless all things metal on the boat are part of the ground system. Any metal not connected to your ground plate
will be a source of failure in the event of a lightning strike. This includes anything metal you bring aboard with you when prepare
for your passage. ie. your jewelry, coffee cup ...
This grounding has little to do with power and wire size on your boat and everything to do with lightning rods and such.

Two ground for lightning. but leave it to the pros so you don't forget anything. Note all wire paths should have smooth transition
when changing any direction and the main wire path from the grounding rod should go directly to your grounding plate.

Those that ground for lightning for a living are divided on how they have their own boats grounded.  Many have their boats set up for a floating 
electrical system to avoid the above problem with grounding the system. Others will ground. I assume they are strongly set on storing all
metal Items in the grounded oven should a storm greets them at sea.

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 4:37 PM 'james@deny.org' james@deny.org [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

From each separate system to the bus bar, is normally the largest size just for that  individual system.  You did not mention what you will be grounding to: dyna-plate, boat shaft, or other path to earth ground.  That wire size should be the largest for all systems. 

In a boat with a mechanical engine, that is normally the 12/24 volt systems ground. Which is earthed via the engine block via the shaft.. Which is normally the largest gauge anyways do to being the lowest voltage, highest amperage circuits on a normal boat. 

On an electric boats that may not be the case.  So first you need to understand what is the lowest resistance path to earth ground, that is also correctly sized to handle the combined grounding needs of all systems that are connect to the grounding system.  This assumes none of those systems are floating systems, and have no earth ground by design and then should be heavily insulated, with all devices attached to that system electrically isolated. So if you chose to float your 48 volt traction pack, then for example make sure your battery charger connected to mains power has isolated outputs. (normally this only apply to fairly high-end and specialty chargers.)

So the first thing you need to do is identify your path to earth ground. If you removed the old engine, you may no longer have one. And will need to create a new properly sized earth ground.  



On Jan 26, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Chris Hudson clh5_98@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Brian,

Even though not considered high voltage, some people keep their 48V system ungrounded. I think this is addressed in the high voltage standard TE-30, although I've never seen it.

Chris

Sent from myPhone

On Jan 25, 2019, at 21:27, DAN HENNIS dhennis@centurytel.net [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I don"t do ABYC very well yet, but I believe the NEC wants your first choice.  Think of it logically, if your supply is say 15 amps, then use the size for that supply.  Each supply gets a wire to the buss.  It does no additional good to put #2 for a ground when a 12 is the supply size. (IMHO)
Dan



----- Original Message -----
From: kd5crs@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:45:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Electric Boats] Ground wire sizing





 
Hello all, I have a sanity-check question to make sure I'm interpreting ABYC correctly for my electric boat conversion.

I have 3 electrical systems onboard:
1. Shore power, 120VAC 30A, dock only, no inverters. 10AWG from inlet to main panel. Branch circuits (all 15A breakers) are 12AWG.
2. 48V electric motor, max amperage 120A. 2AWG from pack to motor.
3. 12V accessory power... Actual max amperage is very low (just LED running lights and a radio), but I'm sizing the wires from the battery to the DC panel for the max panel amps, so I'm using 4AWG from battery to panel. Branch circuits are 16AWG.

My plan is to use a bus bar (probably the Blue Sea MaxiBus 250A 4 post) as the common grounding point.

I'm looking at ABYC E-9 (13) figure 15, DC NEGATIVE SYSTEM - DC GROUNDING SYSTEM. My takeaway here is that each system should using a grounding wire the same size as its biggest wire size. So the Shore power panel to ground should be 10AWG, the 48V battery to ground should be 2AWG, and the 12V battery to ground should be 4AWG. However, the alternate interpretation is that all wires should be the largest size, so all three need to be 2AWG.

So which way is right: each system uses the size of its largest conductor (10, 2, and 4, Dr Pepper time), or every system uses the size of the largest conductor (2AWG).

Thanks,
Brian






--
Dan Hennis
CTR Services
P.O.. Box 254
14237 FR 1155
Cassville, MO  65625-0254
417-396-0228

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Posted by: Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@gmail.com>
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