Thursday, June 30, 2011

[Electric Boats] Re: New numbers - I would love your input - I will upload the excell file next

 

Hi Richard,

From a vendors standpoint, that makes sense. Since different battery types have different usage guidelines, it's tougher to make it "one size fits all". Many people here use the guidelines of 60% DoD for FLA, 70% DoD for AGM and 80% for Lithium. Many mainstream boaters use a 50% limit for their deep cycle FLA house batteries. Of course, using a 100% limit doesn't give one much of a reserve....

I would be interested if the range and hours figures are tailored for battery type, your numbers worked out to a Peukert's exponent of 1.10, which is a typical figure for AGM batteries. Flooded cells can vary more widely and typically fall into the 1.2 to 1.3 range. I use 1.25 as a reasonable average for flooded cell performance calculations.

My E-Xpert Pro HV allows for a battery's Peukert exponent to be entered into the meter to make it's capacity predictions more accurate. My Lithium batteries were spec'd with a PE of 1.03 and that figure is proving to be fairly accurate through observation.

Fair winds,
Eric

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mair <fullkeel2000@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Eric.Brett
>   I e-mailed Scott at Electric Yacht.He confirmed that the readings are to 100% discharge..He did not want to presume what depth customers would use..
> Richard
>
>

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: New numbers - I would love your input - I will upload the excell file next

 


Hi Eric.Brett
  I e-mailed Scott at Electric Yacht.He confirmed that the readings are to 100% discharge..He did not want to presume what depth customers would use..
Richard
From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:10:04 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: New numbers - I would love your input - I will upload the excell file next

 
Hi Brett,

Like I said on the Thundersky board, I think your results are excellent.

Can you give a brief description of how you ran your tests including the conditions and instrumentation?

I also noticed that your range and hours figures appear to be calculated to 100% depth of discharge. I think for AGM, 70% DoD is more accepted to maintain battery life. All of the published ranges for my Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30 with 160Ah of lithium batteies assume an 80% DoD.

Congrats on your conversion.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "m8trixman" <pb@...> wrote:
>
> Brett Peterson - Cal-29 with 8 group 31 AGM 12 volt batteries, 48 volt 200 AMP system with the Electric Yacht 100 motor
>
> Amps Knots Range RPMs Volts Hours
> 6 2.2 83.6 730 51 38
> 10 2.9 55.1 1020 51 19
> 18 3.7 38.85 1250 50 10.5
> 20 3.9 32.76 1280 50 8.4
> 25 4.2 28.98 1380 50 6.9
> 30 4.8 26.88 1480 50 5.6
> 35 5 25 1580 50 5
> 40 5.1 21.93 1610 50 4.3
> 45 5.2 19.76 1700 50 3.8
> 87 6.2 11.16 2150 49 1.8
>



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[Electric Boats] Hello and good stuff

 

My partner and I are considering re powering with electric motor as the old Volvo has died. (sigh.) This is a 35 ft Endurance sailboat.
I've been following forum threads and doing my own research to see if this is an option considering our sailing style, budget, weight factors and space.
I'm about to start calling companies for prices on motors to figure out the battery needs and options. Would love to go lithium and might have to, given space constraints.
Any advice or recommendations on motors for 10 ton boat or sources for battery specs or personal experiences are greatly appreciated!
It's very nice to read positive posts without all those naysayers!
Thanks!
Yona and Shay

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[Electric Boats] Re: New numbers - I would love your input - I will upload the excell file next

 

Hi Brett,

Like I said on the Thundersky board, I think your results are excellent.

Can you give a brief description of how you ran your tests including the conditions and instrumentation?

I also noticed that your range and hours figures appear to be calculated to 100% depth of discharge. I think for AGM, 70% DoD is more accepted to maintain battery life. All of the published ranges for my Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30 with 160Ah of lithium batteies assume an 80% DoD.

Congrats on your conversion.

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "m8trixman" <pb@...> wrote:
>
> Brett Peterson - Cal-29 with 8 group 31 AGM 12 volt batteries, 48 volt 200 AMP system with the Electric Yacht 100 motor
>
> Amps Knots Range RPMs Volts Hours
> 6 2.2 83.6 730 51 38
> 10 2.9 55.1 1020 51 19
> 18 3.7 38.85 1250 50 10.5
> 20 3.9 32.76 1280 50 8.4
> 25 4.2 28.98 1380 50 6.9
> 30 4.8 26.88 1480 50 5.6
> 35 5 25 1580 50 5
> 40 5.1 21.93 1610 50 4.3
> 45 5.2 19.76 1700 50 3.8
> 87 6.2 11.16 2150 49 1.8
>

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[Electric Boats] Re: New numbers - I would love your input - I will upload the excell file next

 

I'm just looking at the amps vs. knots figures but that looks excellent Brett. The Cal 29 is a fairly light, slippery boat, no? Thanks for sharing your data.
Jim

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "m8trixman" <pb@...> wrote:
>
> Brett Peterson - Cal-29 with 8 group 31 AGM 12 volt batteries, 48 volt 200 AMP system with the Electric Yacht 100 motor
>
> Amps Knots Range RPMs Volts Hours
> 6 2.2 83.6 730 51 38
> 10 2.9 55.1 1020 51 19
> 18 3.7 38.85 1250 50 10.5
> 20 3.9 32.76 1280 50 8.4
> 25 4.2 28.98 1380 50 6.9
> 30 4.8 26.88 1480 50 5.6
> 35 5 25 1580 50 5
> 40 5.1 21.93 1610 50 4.3
> 45 5.2 19.76 1700 50 3.8
> 87 6.2 11.16 2150 49 1.8
>

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Wednesday, June 29, 2011

[Electric Boats] New numbers - I would love your input - I will upload the excell file next

 

Brett Peterson - Cal-29 with 8 group 31 AGM 12 volt batteries, 48 volt 200 AMP system with the Electric Yacht 100 motor

Amps Knots Range RPMs Volts Hours
6 2.2 83.6 730 51 38
10 2.9 55.1 1020 51 19
18 3.7 38.85 1250 50 10.5
20 3.9 32.76 1280 50 8.4
25 4.2 28.98 1380 50 6.9
30 4.8 26.88 1480 50 5.6
35 5 25 1580 50 5
40 5.1 21.93 1610 50 4.3
45 5.2 19.76 1700 50 3.8
87 6.2 11.16 2150 49 1.8

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Re: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

HI sally

 thanks for the clarification. re Asmo and Asmo Marine

Did you happen to view a couple of Cedric's earlest u tube clips quite an interesting fellow and an unusual start up.

among'st several  worht viewing  plus more info on his motor

Thanks 
Steve Marshall

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Re: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

Just a clarification for everyone - the Swiss company, ASMO Karts, which is the reference in Steve's email, is not the same company as ASMO Marine in Copenhagen, Denmark.  ASMO Marine uses the Lynch motor (now made by LMC and run by Cedric's former partner, Trevor Lees) in their Thoosa systems.  They have a very good relationship with LMC.

Sally Reuther
Annapolis Hybrid Marine

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:40 PM, Steve Marshall <steve.marshall@gmail.com> wrote:
 

Hi All 

I am a boat builder and designer.
 some years back I came across this fellow and was very impressed with him and his inventiveness
here's a link to some history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_motor

I was very impressed by him and his early web site indicated a very difficult time with his dealings with ASMO, (I think ) 
From memory, He did win a court battle and was substantially paid off. 
He now has his motors made by Agni in India (once again,I think )

He was very helpful to me and his motors were stack-able (like donuts ) so greater horsepower's could be obtained. 
 For my own part the boat I had hoped to electrically power can be seen on my Blog    Marshall design  or Trailer Trawler. 
I am currently building a belt drive that will transfer the motor out put down to the prop shaft  approx 360mm lower.
Steve Marshall


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Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Re: [Electric Boats] Just joined

 

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:38:37AM +0100, Jonathan Stevens wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am building an eighteen foot motor cruiser and had planned to use a diesel
> engine. Following discussion on the Origami Group I am now keen to find out
> more about electric power..

[grin] Nice to see that discussion producing positive results. Good to
see you here, Jonathan!

--
Ben Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-

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RE: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

Personally, I’d steer wide and away from that website and their company,  Thermodyne Systems.

They build and/or sell PMA’s (Permanent Magnet Alternators) that they claim can handle high loads.

Add to that the fact that their online lame performance curves are misleading, a close friend purchased one of their PMA’s.

When we found out it not only didn’t generate as much power as expected and even less than a standard automobile alternator, we were disappointed.  Worse, we found that the PMA was also getting VERY warm, if not hot and only delivered 250watts!

We immediately contacted the company and were told that since we tested it, we bought it.

It didn’t matter to them that we told them that their specs online are highly misleading and misrepresent the performance.

Worse still, they haven’t done a thing in several years to correct those representations or to show meaningful performance curves.

While your mileage may vary, my experience led me to conclude that this company should not be in business.

Since they warn about heat with the MANTA motors and given our experience with their PMA’s getting hot, well, sounds like more of the same to me.

 

-mt

 

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben Okopnik
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 3:52 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

 

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:27:49AM -0400, Dennis Wolfe wrote:
>
> That is a rebuilt 6 hp MARS motor. New ones usually are around $450 + maybe
> $25 freight. They want $690 inc'l frt.
>
> They are taking advantage of people not understanding motor power vs. its
> ability to dissipate heat.

Great; thanks very much. I'm still getting familiar with the state of
things, and that looked like a very low price already for the power
output. Good to know that there's even more to the story.

--
Ben Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-

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Re: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:27:49AM -0400, Dennis Wolfe wrote:
>
> That is a rebuilt 6 hp MARS motor. New ones usually are around $450 + maybe
> $25 freight. They want $690 inc'l frt.
>
> They are taking advantage of people not understanding motor power vs. its
> ability to dissipate heat.

Great; thanks very much. I'm still getting familiar with the state of
things, and that looked like a very low price already for the power
output. Good to know that there's even more to the story.

--
Ben Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-

__._,_.___
.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

Hi All 

I am a boat builder and designer.
 some years back I came across this fellow and was very impressed with him and his inventiveness
here's a link to some history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_motor

I was very impressed by him and his early web site indicated a very difficult time with his dealings with ASMO, (I think ) 
From memory, He did win a court battle and was substantially paid off. 
He now has his motors made by Agni in India (once again,I think )

He was very helpful to me and his motors were stack-able (like donuts ) so greater horsepower's could be obtained. 
 For my own part the boat I had hoped to electrically power can be seen on my Blog    Marshall design  or Trailer Trawler. 
I am currently building a belt drive that will transfer the motor out put down to the prop shaft  approx 360mm lower.
Steve Marshall

__._,_.___
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.

__,_._,___
Posted by at No comments:

Re: [Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

That is a rebuilt 6 hp MARS motor.  New ones usually are around $450 + maybe $25 freight.  They want $690 inc'l frt.

They are taking advantage of people not understanding motor power vs. its ability to dissipate heat.


On 6/28/2011 10:11 AM, Ben Okopnik wrote:

 

Is anybody familiar with these? The power range/price point seem rather
oddly positioned in this market - seems "too good to be true". I realize
it's not brushless, but carrying spare brushes for that kind of price
would be worth it.

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/manta.html

--
Ben Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-


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Posted by at No comments:

[Electric Boats] Manta motors

 

Is anybody familiar with these? The power range/price point seem rather
oddly positioned in this market - seems "too good to be true". I realize
it's not brushless, but carrying spare brushes for that kind of price
would be worth it.

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/manta.html

--
Ben Okopnik
-=-=-=-=-=-

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.

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Posted by at No comments:

[Electric Boats] Just joined

 

Dear All,

I am building an eighteen foot motor cruiser and had planned to use a diesel engine. Following discussion on the Origami Group I am now keen to find out more about electric power..

Jonathan.

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