Tuesday, January 31, 2017

[Electric Boats] torqeedo 26-104 li-on battery

 

Has anyone on this list tried to revive a hibernating 26-104 li-on battery? I have two of them that were stored without a charger attached. Torqeedo's answer is to ship them to the service center and that will be expensive.

Youtube show's how to wake up a tool battery with a couple of short jumps from another battery. For a 26 vdc battery, do I need two 12vdc batteries in series or is one enough to bring the voltage up enough (approx 11vdc) for the Torqeedo charger to sense it?


Joe

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Monday, January 30, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

I have a decibel app on my phone. A decibel meter is only going to give you noise reading which will be in loud range.
I'm not sure how it will tell you which portion of your drive is the culprit.
I'm fairly confident in saying it's probably the HZ frequency that you find the most objectionable. There is another app you can download
to measure frequency. That may be a beter tool to determine where in the rpm range it is the most annoying for you.

Bob

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, 63urban 63urban@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 5:23 AM


   

Decibal meters are not that expensive and
phone apps are free.  I would love to hear some numbers as
well. I am still in the planning stages so knowing this
component would be very helpful.
ThanksNick


Sent from my Bell Samsung device over
Canada's largest network.

-------- Original message --------
From: "moriartybob@yahoo.com
[electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>

Date: 2017-01-29  8:41 PM  (GMT-05:00)

To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels


 



 


   
     
     
      Thanks
everyone for your replies and theories. Has anyone taken any
measurements? My most recent subjective observations put my
3:1 planetary gear reduction unit (which includes the thrust
bearing) as a substantial noise source. It's hard to
objectively pinpoint the noisiest culprit - be it the motor,
the 3:1 reduction unit, or the stuffing box. Just looking
for some data.  :-)
Maybe I should look at
some sort of lead collar around the 3:1 unit.
--Bob M

   

     

   
   




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Posted by: bob jennings <sabre281@yahoo.com>
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.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

I have a decibel app on my phone. A decibel meter is only going to give you noise reading which will be in loud range.
I'm not sure how it will tell you which portion of your drive is the culprit.
I'm fairly confident in saying it's probably the HZ frequency that you find the most objectionable. There is another app you can download
to measure frequency. That may be a beter tool to determine where in the rpm range it is the most annoying for you.

Bob

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 1/30/17, 63urban 63urban@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2017, 5:23 AM


   

Decibal meters are not that expensive and
phone apps are free.  I would love to hear some numbers as
well. I am still in the planning stages so knowing this
component would be very helpful.
ThanksNick


Sent from my Bell Samsung device over
Canada's largest network.

-------- Original message --------
From: "moriartybob@yahoo.com
[electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>

Date: 2017-01-29  8:41 PM  (GMT-05:00)

To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels


 



 


   
     
     
      Thanks
everyone for your replies and theories. Has anyone taken any
measurements? My most recent subjective observations put my
3:1 planetary gear reduction unit (which includes the thrust
bearing) as a substantial noise source. It's hard to
objectively pinpoint the noisiest culprit - be it the motor,
the 3:1 reduction unit, or the stuffing box. Just looking
for some data.  :-)
Maybe I should look at
some sort of lead collar around the 3:1 unit.
--Bob M

   

     

   
   




__._,_.___

Posted by: bob jennings <sabre281@yahoo.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (23)

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.

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[Electric Boats] Re: lithium management question

 

Thanks all for the detailed answers. 

I especially appreciated the notes on the effect of the BMS current draw during storage.  My general experience, as well as a discussion with a battery engineer, is that batteries are happier with "use" rather than sitting idle.  From that I would expect the small current drain is a good thing. 

A fresh charge to start the season is proper whatever battery one uses, and starting from a (however long) discharge cycle is appropriate.

John A.

--
Flatwater Electronics
www.flatwaterfarm.com
"Neurosurgery for computer looms."

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Posted by: John Acord <jcacord@gmail.com>
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.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

Decibal meters are not that expensive and phone apps are free.  I would love to hear some numbers as well. I am still in the planning stages so knowing this component would be very helpful.

Thanks
Nick



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "moriartybob@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2017-01-29 8:41 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

Thanks everyone for your replies and theories. Has anyone taken any measurements? My most recent subjective observations put my 3:1 planetary gear reduction unit (which includes the thrust bearing) as a substantial noise source. It's hard to objectively pinpoint the noisiest culprit - be it the motor, the 3:1 reduction unit, or the stuffing box. Just looking for some data.  :-)
Maybe I should look at some sort of lead collar around the 3:1 unit.
--Bob M

__._,_.___

Posted by: 63urban <63urban@gmail.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (20)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

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Sunday, January 29, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

A cover of some sort will quiet things a bit   After you put a little time in testing   Go for it.  Mine is very quiet

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 29, 2017, at 5:41 PM, moriartybob@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Thanks everyone for your replies and theories. Has anyone taken any measurements? My most recent subjective observations put my 3:1 planetary gear reduction unit (which includes the thrust bearing) as a substantial noise source. It's hard to objectively pinpoint the noisiest culprit - be it the motor, the 3:1 reduction unit, or the stuffing box. Just looking for some data.  :-)
Maybe I should look at some sort of lead collar around the 3:1 unit.
--Bob M

__._,_.___

Posted by: L Schmitz <terminalift@yahoo.com>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (22)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: Decibels

 

Thanks everyone for your replies and theories. Has anyone taken any measurements? My most recent subjective observations put my 3:1 planetary gear reduction unit (which includes the thrust bearing) as a substantial noise source. It's hard to objectively pinpoint the noisiest culprit - be it the motor, the 3:1 reduction unit, or the stuffing box. Just looking for some data.  :-)
Maybe I should look at some sort of lead collar around the 3:1 unit.
--Bob M

__._,_.___

Posted by: moriartybob@yahoo.com
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (19)

Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

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Saturday, January 28, 2017

[Electric Boats] Belt-drive, noise/loss of effect?

 

I am in the process of designing my system which will be connected to an existing saildrive. 
I had the intention of coupling it directly with the motor, since the drive has a 2.2:1 reduction. 
But know I am wondering if I should connect it with a belt-drive so I quite easily can change gearing to match my prop after some time with sea trials.

Is a belt-drive noisy, and how much effet does it cost?

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Posted by: jesper@ruben-hansen.dk
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Friday, January 27, 2017

[Electric Boats] Re: lithium management question

 

I haven't had my pack as long Eric but like you I'm sold on them. I have 8 x 200 Ah in series for my 24 V direct drive Lynch system.
http://en.thundersky-winston.com/index.php/products/power-battery/item/wb-lyp200ahab?category_id=176

I love the stable voltage under load and overall ease of use. Cell balancing and BMS. I leave in boat over winter with BMS off. Currently at 50% SOC and only advice I've been given is take them back up to full charge and balance before using again. I'm also told storage SOC not that important.

John R.

https://facebook.com/ElektraYachts/

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Thursday, January 26, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: lithium management question

 


Is there a US supplier for Thundersky?  I'm sold on the LifePO4 concept and am now shopping around...

Cheers,

Jeff LaCoursiere
s/v Angels Quest

On 01/26/2017 12:47 PM, ewdysar ewdysar@yahoo.com [electricboats] wrote:
 

My battery pack is 16 Thundersky 160Ah cells in series with Mini-BMS modules from EV Works on each cell. My experience lines up with Jason's. Minimal draw over long storage periods. I have measured cell performance through annual controlled deep discharge and recharge cycles since the pack's installation in 2010. There has been minimal capacity degradation over the last six years, however, the cells are still outperforming their manufacturer's specs. I have adjusted my E-Xpert Pro battery monitor to account for my overall self-discharge rate, I believe that my present setting of 2.6%/month is very close. That rate includes the effects of the BMS cells.

I have stored my batteries starting at states from 100% down to 60%. As I stated earlier, the cells are still outperforming their stated specs. It does not appear that leaving them at 100% for months at a time has had any measurable effect. That said, maybe it has cost me something in cycle life. Since I am still under 100 cycles after six years, I doubt that I will get the chance to observe a small percentage reduction in the stated 2000+ cycle lifespan.

After owning this battery pack for 6 years, I am a solid proponent of the technology. Previously, the average lifespan of a lead acid battery in any intermittent duty has been something less than 3 years for me, in spite of my well intentioned, but apparently inadequate, attention to battery maintenance. This includes classic cars, utility vehicles and my boats.

I have found LiFePO4 cells to be lighter, smaller, take less attention, and safer than the various types of lead acid batteries (wet, AGM, gel). I have blown up a wet cell L/A battery with a trickle charger. This lead to extensive corrosive damage, luckily, the car and my garage did not catch fire. For me, the lithium cells have already proven to be cheaper, based on my personal history, I would be getting ready to buy my third set of lead acid batteries for my boat. That would offset any cost savings that I would have gotten during my initial install.

I purchased my cells and BMS in 2009 for just under $0.45/Wh, including shipping and taxes, which is still an excellent deal today for new, not used or reclaimed, product. So for those of you that are waiting for the prices to drop 20% in the year or so as promised by "experts", I can tell you that they were saying the same thing seven years ago. Maybe Tesla and cordless drill manufacturers are saving money, but those savings have never materialized for small volume, end user customers like us. That said, the prices have been stable while most things have been affected by inflation, so that is a net effect of getting relatively cheaper. Bottom line, other than your ability to afford the initial purchase, it is my belief that every other concern with LiFePO4 batteries that has been listed here recently, is really not an issue in the real world.

This is all based on my first hand experiences. Good luck with your decisions.

Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30, 5KW Propulsion Marine drive, 8KWh LiFePo4 battery pack.


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Posted by: Jeff LaCoursiere <jeff@jeff.net>
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With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


.

__,_._,___

[Electric Boats] Re: lithium management question

 

My battery pack is 16 Thundersky 160Ah cells in series with Mini-BMS modules from EV Works on each cell. My experience lines up with Jason's. Minimal draw over long storage periods. I have measured cell performance through annual controlled deep discharge and recharge cycles since the pack's installation in 2010. There has been minimal capacity degradation over the last six years, however, the cells are still outperforming their manufacturer's specs. I have adjusted my E-Xpert Pro battery monitor to account for my overall self-discharge rate, I believe that my present setting of 2.6%/month is very close. That rate includes the effects of the BMS cells.

I have stored my batteries starting at states from 100% down to 60%. As I stated earlier, the cells are still outperforming their stated specs. It does not appear that leaving them at 100% for months at a time has had any measurable effect. That said, maybe it has cost me something in cycle life. Since I am still under 100 cycles after six years, I doubt that I will get the chance to observe a small percentage reduction in the stated 2000+ cycle lifespan.

After owning this battery pack for 6 years, I am a solid proponent of the technology. Previously, the average lifespan of a lead acid battery in any intermittent duty has been something less than 3 years for me, in spite of my well intentioned, but apparently inadequate, attention to battery maintenance. This includes classic cars, utility vehicles and my boats.

I have found LiFePO4 cells to be lighter, smaller, take less attention, and safer than the various types of lead acid batteries (wet, AGM, gel). I have blown up a wet cell L/A battery with a trickle charger. This lead to extensive corrosive damage, luckily, the car and my garage did not catch fire. For me, the lithium cells have already proven to be cheaper, based on my personal history, I would be getting ready to buy my third set of lead acid batteries for my boat. That would offset any cost savings that I would have gotten during my initial install.

I purchased my cells and BMS in 2009 for just under $0.45/Wh, including shipping and taxes, which is still an excellent deal today for new, not used or reclaimed, product. So for those of you that are waiting for the prices to drop 20% in the year or so as promised by "experts", I can tell you that they were saying the same thing seven years ago. Maybe Tesla and cordless drill manufacturers are saving money, but those savings have never materialized for small volume, end user customers like us. That said, the prices have been stable while most things have been affected by inflation, so that is a net effect of getting relatively cheaper. Bottom line, other than your ability to afford the initial purchase, it is my belief that every other concern with LiFePO4 batteries that has been listed here recently, is really not an issue in the real world.

This is all based on my first hand experiences. Good luck with your decisions.

Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30, 5KW Propulsion Marine drive, 8KWh LiFePo4 battery pack.

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Posted by: ewdysar <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
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.

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