Re: [electricboats] max temperature for a PM motor

What you did sounds far and away the best solution.

The sail drives will inevitably be problematic in the future and expensive to fix. A straight shaft is simpler and simpler is better. Might have been a little more aggravation up front but will head off far more aggravation and expense later. IMO

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 11:28:34 AM EDT, Reuben Trane via groups.io <rjtrane=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

I was going to keep my sail drives. I designed a motor mount that would allow a belt drive from the motor to the Saildrive. I ended up removing the sail drives and replacing with straight shafts. But I think my previous solution would work. 

Re: [electricboats] max temperature for a PM motor

Check out Sailing Uma, They installed a saildrive in their boat recently with details. You have to check Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAhlrGck-bc&t=1237s 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 6:34 AM <gramos911@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi , from another cat owner with saildrives , I am interested on how you managed to connect the electric motors to your saildrives . I have twin diesels and use Volvo penta 120 S saildrives . Is there an adapter kit to fit the e motors available that you used ? 

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30798) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] max temperature for a PM motor

I was going to keep my sail drives. I designed a motor mount that would allow a belt drive from the motor to the Saildrive. I ended up removing the sail drives and replacing with straight shafts. But I think my previous solution would work. 

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30796) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] max temperature for a PM motor

there is a professional plug n' play system to do this job if you are interested .

Transfluid's hybrid system 

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30797) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] max temperature for a PM motor

Hi , from another cat owner with saildrives , I am interested on how you managed to connect the electric motors to your saildrives . I have twin diesels and use Volvo penta 120 S saildrives . Is there an adapter kit to fit the e motors available that you used ? 

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30795) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] Good deal on panels

Maybe something to think about it. 

https://pveducation.com/solar-module-quality/snail-trails/

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

[electricboats] Good deal on panels

Here's a pretty good deal on some solar panels with minor defects that
reportedly don't really impact the efficiency. $33.75 for 250w.

https://store.santansolar.com/product/santan-solar-t-series-250w-snail-trai
ls/



They also have new 400w panels for $180.

https://store.santansolar.com/product/trina-400w/



I don't have anything to do with this company, a friend just sent me a
notice about the sale.



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#30793): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/30793
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/77003394/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [electricboats] Intro

Hey there.  If you'd like to chat about this I can call you tomorrow. I've done this with a couple of people, much easier.

I'm eastern time so just let me know what works for you. 

Bob

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020, 5:35 PM <mdblackstock@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm definitely interested in how your setup went and is working. 
It sounds like you've had it in use for awhile, so a newb like me would definitely appreciate the advice!

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30792) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] Intro

I'm definitely interested in how your setup went and is working. 
It sounds like you've had it in use for awhile, so a newb like me would definitely appreciate the advice!

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30791) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] [Electric Boats] Greetings! Catalina 30 owner here, considering an electric repower

@bob jennings
I really like the looks of your setup, Bob. What is that white coupler between your motor and the prop shaft? 
Thanks! 
mdblackstock@gmail.com

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30790) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] Battery shutoff switch, before or after soc monitor?

Nevermind, it took me 30 seconds after sending my response to see this message.


-----Original Message-----
From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ryan Sweet
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 3:38 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Battery shutoff switch, before or after soc monitor?

Nevermind, it took me about thirty seconds longer to realize this was a silly question since the victron shunt is on the negative side.


> On Sep 19, 2020, at 12:28, Ryan Sweet via groups.io <ryan=ryansweet.org@groups.io> wrote:
>
> So based on recommendations here, I am installing a Victron bmv-712 battery monitor.
>
> I have a safety shutoff switch that is between my battery bank and everything else. Should I put the victron battery monitor ahead of the shutoff switch or after it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>








-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#30789): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/30789
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/76959483/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [electricboats] Battery shutoff switch, before or after soc monitor?

I just installed mine. It goes in the negative connection to the battery
bank. My shutoff switch is in the positive line so I avoided having to ask
your question. All is working well.


-----Original Message-----
From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ryan
Sweet
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 3:29 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: [electricboats] Battery shutoff switch, before or after soc
monitor?

So based on recommendations here, I am installing a Victron bmv-712 battery
monitor.

I have a safety shutoff switch that is between my battery bank and
everything else. Should I put the victron battery monitor ahead of the
shutoff switch or after it?










-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#30788): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/30788
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/76959483/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [electricboats] Battery shutoff switch, before or after soc monitor?

Nevermind, it took me about thirty seconds longer to realize this was a silly question since the victron shunt is on the negative side.


> On Sep 19, 2020, at 12:28, Ryan Sweet via groups.io <ryan=ryansweet.org@groups.io> wrote:
>
> So based on recommendations here, I am installing a Victron bmv-712 battery monitor.
>
> I have a safety shutoff switch that is between my battery bank and everything else. Should I put the victron battery monitor ahead of the shutoff switch or after it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#30787): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/30787
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/76959483/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[electricboats] Battery shutoff switch, before or after soc monitor?

So based on recommendations here, I am installing a Victron bmv-712 battery monitor.

I have a safety shutoff switch that is between my battery bank and everything else. Should I put the victron battery monitor ahead of the shutoff switch or after it?




-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#30786): https://groups.io/g/electricboats/message/30786
Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/76959483/3360820
Group Owner: electricboats+owner@groups.io
Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/electricboats/leave/6293187/430022002/xyzzy [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [electricboats] Two voltage battery banks on one charger

Btw the following episode of Sailing Uma is all about their battery / converter setup (spoiler, they have a 48v bank and a pair of victron dc-dc converters for the 12v loads).  It's a nice intro to how it's put together. 

https://youtu.be/JHUQiRyVV3Y 

On Sep 16, 2020, at 07:13, jeremy baker via groups.io <childscrick=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

 I think Genasun makes a boost charge controller. There's probably imported ones on Fleabay. Ive had mixed results with the cheap imported electronics and the owners manuals are often ridiculous. Ive not seen a dc to dc "charger" from 72 volts to 12 or 24 volts. Ive seen dc to dc "converter"  from 72 volts to 12 volts. Ive got one on my shelf that I have no use for. It's not very powerful. I think it's 15 amps at 12 volts. I like dc to dc "chargers" because they are adjustable. Converters generally are not. I would not recommend trying to substitute a solar charge controller for a dc to dc charger. They are not designed for that. 

 Any update?. I'd like to build a 48-72 volt EV and am curious what you figure out. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, September 5, 2020, 7:52 AM, Peter Zephyr <Pcbeckett@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for this explanation.  Can you tell me the model of Boost controller   

Rgds Peter

On Sep 5, 2020, at 10:44 AM, reesekc <kcr@kcrproducts.com> wrote:



I've tried several of the ideas listed on this subject...  what has worked best for me: I presently have 2 x 100w solar panels connected in series to provide 24v plus. I use a "boost" mppt solar controller (requires a minimum of 15v input and provides about 54v max output) to charge my 48v battery bank. The solar is connected all-the-time. I then use a 48v to 12v DC to DC converter to provide boat power. When needed, I plug in a standard 48v Golf Cart Charger into either dock power or my 2k generator. On longer motoring periods, I found that I can hold 3.3 Knots continuously using the generator while still holding the existing battery charge. FYI... I have a Sloop rig 35.5 ft Hughes Sailboat.

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:18 AM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

They make 12v batt chargers that take 48v input.  I have one but haven't installed yet as I still have a separate panel and charge controller for 12v.  I want that real estate back though so I can use for another panel for 48v charging :-)

On Sep 4, 2020, at 10:19 PM, Tommy rochester <troche289@gmail.com> wrote:



Do you know what it's called so I can research it? Our maybe the name of the company?

How do I connect the generator to the charger. The charger I'm using will let me combine wind and solar and it will switch between automatically. I'm not using wind so I'm thinking I could tie in to that spot on the charger. But I need to convert the power from ac to dc for that to work. Honestly not sure of a really good way to do it. 

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 10:06 PM CaptainJohn49 <johnschubert0711@gmail.com> wrote:

There is a company in the UK that makes a generator starter when the battery voltage drops below 11.8v the gen set turns on and turns off at 12.8v or so.  All automatic.  I have one but never installed it. Cost was about $75 with a waterproof enclosure.

CaptainJohn49 

On Sep 3, 2020, at 16:00, sw via groups.io <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

 Mppt charger maybe cheaper 

On Thursday, September 3, 2020, 14:43, damonalane <dlane@posteo.net> wrote:

I would go with the DC-DC converter as the simpler option, assuming you can buy one that steps down that far: 72V to 12V or 24V. That's how mine is setup, though my motor only needs 48V. I'm guessing with the proliferation of higher voltage motors that converters are available for those systems.

To use another solar controller, wouldn't you need another solar array? And to figure out how many watts of solar panels to give to each controller? With one controller you can put the solar where it works best. Let the controller control all of it, and let voltage flow "downhill" through the DC-DC converter.

Re: [electricboats] Two voltage battery banks on one charger

I've had 2-100 watt panels for three years. Added a 24 volt 60 watt panel this past season. I played with connecting the 60 watt in series with the other two & connecting it parallel to one of the 100 watt panels.  Connecting all together in series gave me the best result.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 10:13 AM Peter Zephyr <Pcbeckett@gmail.com> wrote:

How many 24 Volt panels do you have?  I assume at least two??

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Jennings
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 4:08 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Two voltage battery banks on one charger

 

With the solar charge them in series Peter. 

 

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 4:02 PM Peter Zephyr <Pcbeckett@gmail.com> wrote:

I assume your 48 Volt pack is made up of four 12volt batteries in series.

Do you charge them in series i.e at 48 volts+ or do you charge each 12 volt battery separately?

 

If separately do you connect them all to the same controller and charge them at the same time

 

Rgds  Peter Beckett

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Jennings
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2020 3:47 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Two voltage battery banks on one charger

 

FWIW, I have a separate 48 volt propulsion bank & 12 volt house bank. I charge both banks with 260 watts of 24 volt panels wired in series using a midnight kid solar controller.  I wired the controller output to a double pole double throw transfer switch. I can pick which bank I'd like to charge & easily adjust the parameters.  

 

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020, 3:12 PM sw via groups.io <v1opps=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I like the mppt charger because they usually have adjustable voltage and amperage tsp can use for many battery types

 

On Friday, September 4, 2020, 11:55:16 AM PDT, Damon Lane <dlane@posteo.net> wrote:

 

 

DC-DC converters are simple: they produce the lower voltage from the higher voltage, and supply current up to their max rated power throughput. 

On my boat, I have no lower voltage batteries, so if the propulsion bank or DC-DC converter had a problem, I'd have no 12V. That is a problem, and I'm realizing that if I did have batteries at 12V, the DC-DC converter probably wouldn't charge them because the voltage it supplies is too low (13.1V) and it's not a charger. 

So I'll amend my initial comment and say DC-DC converters are simpler if you don't plan to have separate battery banks at different voltages. If you do, I think you do need two chargers. Setting up two chargers and a generator is surely possible, but you may want to consult a book or specialist. I think the generator could be set to trip on at low voltage, but would you want it to if it would come on each morning at dawn, only to charge for a few minutes before the solar would have come on anyway? I would want more complex controls.

_._,_._,_

---

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#30784) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic

Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [newarmyguitar24@gmail.com]

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

With respect to the performance of the Sevcon 4 controller, after six full seasons of almost flawless operation with my Electroprop 5KW designed system, I offer this one instance of the Sevcon 4 controller malfunction taken from an earlier posting I did a couple of years ago.  

The only operational incident I have encountered in four years was after launching in the spring of 2018, the electric drive cut out unexpectedly as I turned into my berth. I turned the power off and restarted and all seemed fine. It re-occurred a couple of times over the next week.  I talked to Electroprop and they had never experienced that event before. They thought it might be something to do with the controller and it might have to be reprogrammed.  But to my good luck, when asking around locally about operations dealing with electric motors, a friend of mine who ran a small engine shop and worked on electric bikes suggested I try disconnecting the negative terminal on the controller and let it sit for at least an hour. His experience and resonating was that with our Canadian winter environment of freeze-thaw cycles coupled with humidity fluctuations, he found it affected the bike controller's performances and if they were disconnected, the controller would reboot itself.  I followed his advice and sure enough the problem disappeared and I sailed on all season without further incident. I repeat the disconnect every spring before launching and it has not occurred again since.

I  just wonder if humidity problems in your southern climes are enough to cause a similar malfunction of the controller.  It was a cheap fix for my situation.  Good Luck.

Jamie 

On Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 09:03:22 p.m. ADT, Anton <antonherbert@earthlink.net> wrote:

Larry,

I have a Thunderstruck ac34 system.  I had problems with the six pin connector to the throttle. (I have the Curtis 134). 

I finally bypassed the connector with a terminal block, no issues since.

I also recently had to replace the throttle after it became stuck on full forward.  I was setting up for a sail and the jib sheet jammed the lever hard forward. After that, no matter what position the lever was it was stuck in forward.  I plan on carrying a spare.

Before I would send the system back to Thunderstruck, I would recheck and clean every connector and contact. Use a ton of dielectric gel (Btw- you can get a life time supply of dialectic gel at the auto parts store for the same price as westmarine charges for a little ketchup packet of the stuff.)

Good luck!

Anton

On Sep 15, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Myles.  I followed the wiring descriptions to get the unit working and have used it about a dozen times running up to 50amps in tests.  It ran good if forward and reverse.  Nothing in the wiring has changed and my meter reads valid numbers up to the contactor of 53V.  This idea that the 24v supply to the coils in the contactor being PWM might not show up on my amp meter seems like it could be leading me astray and that this really is the contactor.  I wish I had easy access to one I could use to rule it out but they are something like $120.  I'm thinking I'll go ahead and ship both the controller and the contactor and see what TS finds out.  I asked if it's possible the config in the sevcon could have been corrupted somehow and rewriting a configuration to it might bring it back.  They said they've only seen that happen on two occasions but we'll find out when they get the controller.  I'll have to try and get it taken apart and ship it this weekend and hopefully know something soon.  

Thanks for your input, everyone.  I really appreciate every bit of new information!

Larry

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 12:14 PM Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I've used the Sevcon GEN4's including their contactor drive outputs (3 contactor control outputs used in our case).  The nice thing is that, properly used, Sevcon's contactor control often includes:

·       Built-in transient suppression

·       SW-controlled PWM economizing

·       Contact-weld prevention (contactor closes only after dV small)

 

I don't have vast experience with these, but I know the design is robust.  I also know that Sevcon has great latitude to modify the internal configuration, timing and functionality of the Gen4 units (ours were actually Gen4 motor controllers repurposed as DC to DC converters).  There are lots of safety features, fault indicators and such---and I'm sure the contactor drive outputs are quite protected.  I didn't hear of a single case of a contactor drive output failure.  I personally had Sevcon tailor one contactor drive output for our needs (PWM-drive a 24v coil from 48vDC rail plus PWM economizing).

 

Before sending your controller back to TS, I would double check your wiring against the recommended wiring configuration.  Having said that, hardware fails and software gets configured wrong.  Sometimes the wrong hardware/software configuration gets shipped.  You can have several identical looking GEN4 units all with different configurations and even voltage ratings.  The markings on the controller S/N plate are important and should be checked against what it should be.

 

Best of luck-

 

-Myles Twete

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lars Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 4:50 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

 

The line-contactor power from the sevcon is pwm, i.e. it is a pulsed 20-24v, which then should trigger the relay and provide the 48v main power - with a loudably click . The pwm is difficult to measure with a voltmeter. And the sevcon measures if power is provided on the 48v even if there is no 24v on the line-contactor - and goes into an error called "fused main contactor" (or similar)

 

Lars

 

Den tir. 15. sep. 2020 kl. 13.33 skrev Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com>:

So my understanding is that the switch going into the sevcon allows the sevcon to determine that the user has switched it on.  It goes through some logic to determine if it's ready to engage the contactor.  So it runs between 20 and 24 volts to the small poles on the contactor.  This engages the contactor and supplies the full 48v to the Sevcon.  So if there is no voltage on those small posts the Sevcon is not turning the thing on.  I was thinking those poles were from the switch but in fact they are not. (which makes sense)  The odd thing here is that the Sevcon has a green light so it doesn't think anything is wrong.  I'm really just trying to understand this as I go.  I am certainly no expert, but what he was saying makes sense to me so far...

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:16 PM <jack21322@gmail.com> wrote:

if the contactor poles are not working shouldn't you change that before dismantling the sevcon?

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 2:23 PM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

So I got a hold of TS today.  They said the small poles on the contactor should show 20 to 24v when it's energized to make the contactors close.  Probing those posts I get no voltage.  They had me probe the wires through the harness and they show continuity.  So they are asking that I send them the controller so they can put it on a bench.  So off I go to dismantle things.

 

I really hope I'm missing something and it's fine.  I don't see how, but that would be the best outcome.  I held on to this unit in my home for a couple years until I had the opportunity to do the install.  After getting it installed I've taken the boat off the dock 1 time.  I've run it about a dozen times at the dock so on average I got about $80/hr use out of it.  Sevcon sounds like they are a pretty good outfit but this is very disappointing.  If it is the controller they will make a case for getting a replacement unit from sevcon but no guarantees since it's 3 years old.  I'll keep you guys posted.

 

 

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:46 AM Bob Jennings <heatnh@gmail.com> wrote:

Larry, won't be at my boat till next week.

Matthew brought up a good point. If you can't hear the contactor clicking/pulling in when you turn the key, it's busted.  

The contactor on my boat is a Tyco. Should be able to find a replacement easy enough.

 

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 11:35 AM <jack21322@gmail.com> wrote:

Just so you know, I have the 48v thunderstruck kit and have had the same contactor problem- proper voltage on one pole and significantly reduced voltage on the other. Ended up replacing the contactor and she worked fine. My connections on the contactor were kinda loose when I went to diagnose it at first with the multi meter, but seems yours were tight. 

 

I think the contactor they provide with the kit could be low quality now that I read you are having the same problem. If you end up replacing it with a different kind let me know because I'm thinking of getting a spare contactor the keep on board in case it happens again underway or in a foreign country.

 

Best,

-Jack

 

 

 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 11:51 AM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

Reading up it seems I could leave the throttle in (off position) run a screwdriver across the Line and Terminal contacts and should see the clearview showing the correct voltage to confirm the contactor is not fully engaged?  I'm unsure as to why it isn't simply 53V or 0V on the Terminal side to the controller.  Seems it would act like a physical switch and either be on or off...  But bridging the two with no load seems like it shouldn't hurt.

 

Larry

 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 2:13 PM Larry Brown via groups.io <elcapitanbrown=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I went down to the boat yesterday to clean the bottom and figured I'd run the motor a little to keep that warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm ready to go when I need to and no warmth or fuzz to be had.  Turning the key on to activate the Sevcon caused the sevcon green light to illuminate and the Clearview screen to come on.  However, the clearview shows 00 for voltage.  My battery monitor clearly shows the voltage at 54V (48V system).  When I check the lead going into the contactor to ground I get 53V but on the lead coming out of the contactor going to the controller I'm readying approximate 10V.  I suspect this is the culprit?  Or is there a reason the lead between the contactor and the controller would read low?  

 

Looking at the contactor it looks like it's a sealed/waterproof unit (From the Thunderstruck kit, or at least water resistent).  All wires nuts are tight on their wire leads from both incoming wire from the battery bank and outgoing wire to the controller and the two that run to the key switch.  It's in a dry spot and I've run the motor maybe a dozen times in the 2 years I've had the equipment.  (my project was on hold).  There is no apparent corrosion externally whatsoever so I'm not sure what could have caused it to fail.  We are not far away from the lightning capital of the country (Lakeland Fla) but I don't see any charred marks on anything, the solar charge controller is working fine.  Are contactors flaky parts or parts that I should always have a spare available for?  I really thought having such a simple system that's relatively new that was working as advertised would be doing so for quite a while.  Glad I found out at the dock when I didn't need to move the vessel :-P

 

Thanks in advance for anything you guys can offer as advice.

 

 

Larry

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

Larry,

I have a Thunderstruck ac34 system.  I had problems with the six pin connector to the throttle. (I have the Curtis 134). 

I finally bypassed the connector with a terminal block, no issues since.

I also recently had to replace the throttle after it became stuck on full forward.  I was setting up for a sail and the jib sheet jammed the lever hard forward. After that, no matter what position the lever was it was stuck in forward.  I plan on carrying a spare.

Before I would send the system back to Thunderstruck, I would recheck and clean every connector and contact. Use a ton of dielectric gel (Btw- you can get a life time supply of dialectic gel at the auto parts store for the same price as westmarine charges for a little ketchup packet of the stuff.)

Good luck!

Anton

On Sep 15, 2020, at 9:35 AM, Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Myles.  I followed the wiring descriptions to get the unit working and have used it about a dozen times running up to 50amps in tests.  It ran good if forward and reverse.  Nothing in the wiring has changed and my meter reads valid numbers up to the contactor of 53V.  This idea that the 24v supply to the coils in the contactor being PWM might not show up on my amp meter seems like it could be leading me astray and that this really is the contactor.  I wish I had easy access to one I could use to rule it out but they are something like $120.  I'm thinking I'll go ahead and ship both the controller and the contactor and see what TS finds out.  I asked if it's possible the config in the sevcon could have been corrupted somehow and rewriting a configuration to it might bring it back.  They said they've only seen that happen on two occasions but we'll find out when they get the controller.  I'll have to try and get it taken apart and ship it this weekend and hopefully know something soon.  

Thanks for your input, everyone.  I really appreciate every bit of new information!

Larry

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 12:14 PM Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I've used the Sevcon GEN4's including their contactor drive outputs (3 contactor control outputs used in our case).  The nice thing is that, properly used, Sevcon's contactor control often includes:

·       Built-in transient suppression

·       SW-controlled PWM economizing

·       Contact-weld prevention (contactor closes only after dV small)

 

I don't have vast experience with these, but I know the design is robust.  I also know that Sevcon has great latitude to modify the internal configuration, timing and functionality of the Gen4 units (ours were actually Gen4 motor controllers repurposed as DC to DC converters).  There are lots of safety features, fault indicators and such---and I'm sure the contactor drive outputs are quite protected.  I didn't hear of a single case of a contactor drive output failure.  I personally had Sevcon tailor one contactor drive output for our needs (PWM-drive a 24v coil from 48vDC rail plus PWM economizing).

 

Before sending your controller back to TS, I would double check your wiring against the recommended wiring configuration.  Having said that, hardware fails and software gets configured wrong.  Sometimes the wrong hardware/software configuration gets shipped.  You can have several identical looking GEN4 units all with different configurations and even voltage ratings.  The markings on the controller S/N plate are important and should be checked against what it should be.

 

Best of luck-

 

-Myles Twete

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lars Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 4:50 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

 

The line-contactor power from the sevcon is pwm, i.e. it is a pulsed 20-24v, which then should trigger the relay and provide the 48v main power - with a loudably click . The pwm is difficult to measure with a voltmeter. And the sevcon measures if power is provided on the 48v even if there is no 24v on the line-contactor - and goes into an error called "fused main contactor" (or similar)

 

Lars

 

Den tir. 15. sep. 2020 kl. 13.33 skrev Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com>:

So my understanding is that the switch going into the sevcon allows the sevcon to determine that the user has switched it on.  It goes through some logic to determine if it's ready to engage the contactor.  So it runs between 20 and 24 volts to the small poles on the contactor.  This engages the contactor and supplies the full 48v to the Sevcon.  So if there is no voltage on those small posts the Sevcon is not turning the thing on.  I was thinking those poles were from the switch but in fact they are not. (which makes sense)  The odd thing here is that the Sevcon has a green light so it doesn't think anything is wrong.  I'm really just trying to understand this as I go.  I am certainly no expert, but what he was saying makes sense to me so far...

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:16 PM <jack21322@gmail.com> wrote:

if the contactor poles are not working shouldn't you change that before dismantling the sevcon?

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 2:23 PM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

So I got a hold of TS today.  They said the small poles on the contactor should show 20 to 24v when it's energized to make the contactors close.  Probing those posts I get no voltage.  They had me probe the wires through the harness and they show continuity.  So they are asking that I send them the controller so they can put it on a bench.  So off I go to dismantle things.

 

I really hope I'm missing something and it's fine.  I don't see how, but that would be the best outcome.  I held on to this unit in my home for a couple years until I had the opportunity to do the install.  After getting it installed I've taken the boat off the dock 1 time.  I've run it about a dozen times at the dock so on average I got about $80/hr use out of it.  Sevcon sounds like they are a pretty good outfit but this is very disappointing.  If it is the controller they will make a case for getting a replacement unit from sevcon but no guarantees since it's 3 years old.  I'll keep you guys posted.

 

 

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:46 AM Bob Jennings <heatnh@gmail.com> wrote:

Larry, won't be at my boat till next week.

Matthew brought up a good point. If you can't hear the contactor clicking/pulling in when you turn the key, it's busted.  

The contactor on my boat is a Tyco. Should be able to find a replacement easy enough.

 

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 11:35 AM <jack21322@gmail.com> wrote:

Just so you know, I have the 48v thunderstruck kit and have had the same contactor problem- proper voltage on one pole and significantly reduced voltage on the other. Ended up replacing the contactor and she worked fine. My connections on the contactor were kinda loose when I went to diagnose it at first with the multi meter, but seems yours were tight. 

 

I think the contactor they provide with the kit could be low quality now that I read you are having the same problem. If you end up replacing it with a different kind let me know because I'm thinking of getting a spare contactor the keep on board in case it happens again underway or in a foreign country.

 

Best,

-Jack

 

 

 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 11:51 AM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

Reading up it seems I could leave the throttle in (off position) run a screwdriver across the Line and Terminal contacts and should see the clearview showing the correct voltage to confirm the contactor is not fully engaged?  I'm unsure as to why it isn't simply 53V or 0V on the Terminal side to the controller.  Seems it would act like a physical switch and either be on or off...  But bridging the two with no load seems like it shouldn't hurt.

 

Larry

 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 2:13 PM Larry Brown via groups.io <elcapitanbrown=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I went down to the boat yesterday to clean the bottom and figured I'd run the motor a little to keep that warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm ready to go when I need to and no warmth or fuzz to be had.  Turning the key on to activate the Sevcon caused the sevcon green light to illuminate and the Clearview screen to come on.  However, the clearview shows 00 for voltage.  My battery monitor clearly shows the voltage at 54V (48V system).  When I check the lead going into the contactor to ground I get 53V but on the lead coming out of the contactor going to the controller I'm readying approximate 10V.  I suspect this is the culprit?  Or is there a reason the lead between the contactor and the controller would read low?  

 

Looking at the contactor it looks like it's a sealed/waterproof unit (From the Thunderstruck kit, or at least water resistent).  All wires nuts are tight on their wire leads from both incoming wire from the battery bank and outgoing wire to the controller and the two that run to the key switch.  It's in a dry spot and I've run the motor maybe a dozen times in the 2 years I've had the equipment.  (my project was on hold).  There is no apparent corrosion externally whatsoever so I'm not sure what could have caused it to fail.  We are not far away from the lightning capital of the country (Lakeland Fla) but I don't see any charred marks on anything, the solar charge controller is working fine.  Are contactors flaky parts or parts that I should always have a spare available for?  I really thought having such a simple system that's relatively new that was working as advertised would be doing so for quite a while.  Glad I found out at the dock when I didn't need to move the vessel :-P

 

Thanks in advance for anything you guys can offer as advice.

 

 

Larry

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

Any chance the fuse is blown?

_._,_._,_

Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

You could also disconnect the contactor from the Sevcon and instead, separately turn it on, maybe from your 48v thru an appropriately sized resistor.  If the contactor works, then you have a case to be made for the controller contactor control output (or logic) having some issue.

 

Another thing to check: If the controller validates a remotely sensed voltage before enabling the contactor drive, then you should triple check that the sense wire hasn't flaked out.

 

Again, these things are pretty dang robust, and it will be a waste of time/money only to find that the HW is all good but that some wire came undone and needs to be corrected in either case.

 

One last thing: Is it possible that your connections to the contactor coil have been reversed since it last operated correctly?  That wouldn't necessarily be a problem, however if you also had external diode suppression on the coil, it could totally explain not getting the contactor to click.  As mentioned, the SEVCON contactor control outputs have built-in suppression, so added external suppression (resistor, diode or transorb) should not be needed and might cause the contactor drive to not operate properly (or fail).

 

Just a thought-

 

-MT

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Brown
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 9:36 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

 

Thanks Myles.  I followed the wiring descriptions to get the unit working and have used it about a dozen times running up to 50amps in tests.  It ran good if forward and reverse.  Nothing in the wiring has changed and my meter reads valid numbers up to the contactor of 53V.  This idea that the 24v supply to the coils in the contactor being PWM might not show up on my amp meter seems like it could be leading me astray and that this really is the contactor.  I wish I had easy access to one I could use to rule it out but they are something like $120.  I'm thinking I'll go ahead and ship both the controller and the contactor and see what TS finds out.  I asked if it's possible the config in the sevcon could have been corrupted somehow and rewriting a configuration to it might bring it back.  They said they've only seen that happen on two occasions but we'll find out when they get the controller.  I'll have to try and get it taken apart and ship it this weekend and hopefully know something soon.  

 

Thanks for your input, everyone.  I really appreciate every bit of new information!

 

Larry

 

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 12:14 PM Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I've used the Sevcon GEN4's including their contactor drive outputs (3 contactor control outputs used in our case).  The nice thing is that, properly used, Sevcon's contactor control often includes:

·       Built-in transient suppression

·       SW-controlled PWM economizing

·       Contact-weld prevention (contactor closes only after dV small)

 

I don't have vast experience with these, but I know the design is robust.  I also know that Sevcon has great latitude to modify the internal configuration, timing and functionality of the Gen4 units (ours were actually Gen4 motor controllers repurposed as DC to DC converters).  There are lots of safety features, fault indicators and such---and I'm sure the contactor drive outputs are quite protected.  I didn't hear of a single case of a contactor drive output failure.  I personally had Sevcon tailor one contactor drive output for our needs (PWM-drive a 24v coil from 48vDC rail plus PWM economizing).

 

Before sending your controller back to TS, I would double check your wiring against the recommended wiring configuration.  Having said that, hardware fails and software gets configured wrong.  Sometimes the wrong hardware/software configuration gets shipped.  You can have several identical looking GEN4 units all with different configurations and even voltage ratings.  The markings on the controller S/N plate are important and should be checked against what it should be.

 

Best of luck-

 

-Myles Twete

 

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lars Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 4:50 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Motor not powering up

 

The line-contactor power from the sevcon is pwm, i.e. it is a pulsed 20-24v, which then should trigger the relay and provide the 48v main power - with a loudably click . The pwm is difficult to measure with a voltmeter. And the sevcon measures if power is provided on the 48v even if there is no 24v on the line-contactor - and goes into an error called "fused main contactor" (or similar)

 

Lars

 

Den tir. 15. sep. 2020 kl. 13.33 skrev Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com>:

So my understanding is that the switch going into the sevcon allows the sevcon to determine that the user has switched it on.  It goes through some logic to determine if it's ready to engage the contactor.  So it runs between 20 and 24 volts to the small poles on the contactor.  This engages the contactor and supplies the full 48v to the Sevcon.  So if there is no voltage on those small posts the Sevcon is not turning the thing on.  I was thinking those poles were from the switch but in fact they are not. (which makes sense)  The odd thing here is that the Sevcon has a green light so it doesn't think anything is wrong.  I'm really just trying to understand this as I go.  I am certainly no expert, but what he was saying makes sense to me so far...

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:16 PM <jack21322@gmail.com> wrote:

if the contactor poles are not working shouldn't you change that before dismantling the sevcon?

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 2:23 PM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

So I got a hold of TS today.  They said the small poles on the contactor should show 20 to 24v when it's energized to make the contactors close.  Probing those posts I get no voltage.  They had me probe the wires through the harness and they show continuity.  So they are asking that I send them the controller so they can put it on a bench.  So off I go to dismantle things.

 

I really hope I'm missing something and it's fine.  I don't see how, but that would be the best outcome.  I held on to this unit in my home for a couple years until I had the opportunity to do the install.  After getting it installed I've taken the boat off the dock 1 time.  I've run it about a dozen times at the dock so on average I got about $80/hr use out of it.  Sevcon sounds like they are a pretty good outfit but this is very disappointing.  If it is the controller they will make a case for getting a replacement unit from sevcon but no guarantees since it's 3 years old.  I'll keep you guys posted.

 

 

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 11:46 AM Bob Jennings <heatnh@gmail.com> wrote:

Larry, won't be at my boat till next week.

Matthew brought up a good point. If you can't hear the contactor clicking/pulling in when you turn the key, it's busted.  

The contactor on my boat is a Tyco. Should be able to find a replacement easy enough.

 

 

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020, 11:35 AM <jack21322@gmail.com> wrote:

Just so you know, I have the 48v thunderstruck kit and have had the same contactor problem- proper voltage on one pole and significantly reduced voltage on the other. Ended up replacing the contactor and she worked fine. My connections on the contactor were kinda loose when I went to diagnose it at first with the multi meter, but seems yours were tight. 

 

I think the contactor they provide with the kit could be low quality now that I read you are having the same problem. If you end up replacing it with a different kind let me know because I'm thinking of getting a spare contactor the keep on board in case it happens again underway or in a foreign country.

 

Best,

-Jack

 

 

 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 11:51 AM Larry Brown <elcapitanbrown@gmail.com> wrote:

Reading up it seems I could leave the throttle in (off position) run a screwdriver across the Line and Terminal contacts and should see the clearview showing the correct voltage to confirm the contactor is not fully engaged?  I'm unsure as to why it isn't simply 53V or 0V on the Terminal side to the controller.  Seems it would act like a physical switch and either be on or off...  But bridging the two with no load seems like it shouldn't hurt.

 

Larry

 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 2:13 PM Larry Brown via groups.io <elcapitanbrown=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I went down to the boat yesterday to clean the bottom and figured I'd run the motor a little to keep that warm and fuzzy feeling that I'm ready to go when I need to and no warmth or fuzz to be had.  Turning the key on to activate the Sevcon caused the sevcon green light to illuminate and the Clearview screen to come on.  However, the clearview shows 00 for voltage.  My battery monitor clearly shows the voltage at 54V (48V system).  When I check the lead going into the contactor to ground I get 53V but on the lead coming out of the contactor going to the controller I'm readying approximate 10V.  I suspect this is the culprit?  Or is there a reason the lead between the contactor and the controller would read low?  

 

Looking at the contactor it looks like it's a sealed/waterproof unit (From the Thunderstruck kit, or at least water resistent).  All wires nuts are tight on their wire leads from both incoming wire from the battery bank and outgoing wire to the controller and the two that run to the key switch.  It's in a dry spot and I've run the motor maybe a dozen times in the 2 years I've had the equipment.  (my project was on hold).  There is no apparent corrosion externally whatsoever so I'm not sure what could have caused it to fail.  We are not far away from the lightning capital of the country (Lakeland Fla) but I don't see any charred marks on anything, the solar charge controller is working fine.  Are contactors flaky parts or parts that I should always have a spare available for?  I really thought having such a simple system that's relatively new that was working as advertised would be doing so for quite a while.  Glad I found out at the dock when I didn't need to move the vessel :-P

 

Thanks in advance for anything you guys can offer as advice.

 

 

Larry

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~

 

--

Larry Brown

S/V Trident

Palm Harbor, FL

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~~~

    ~     ~          ~~           ~

~           ~~_/)    ~      ~ ~        ~

     ~                  _/)          ~