T-Pain Is On A Boat: February 2020

Friday, February 28, 2020

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

I use 100Ah prismatic battery cells in a 16S1P configuration, bound with end-plates and held in a heavy plastic box with lid, and you were {charging|discharging} at a rate of approximately {_30_ Amps}. Batteries were measured with a {_Orion Jr BMS_} at a temperature of {_19 degrees C}.

I have a 10kw drive in a TArtan 34C but I rarely use more than 50 amps for very short bursts. Most of my time is spent at 3-4 knots. I have the advantage of 50 degree water outside to keep the hull cool.

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 2:33 PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:

It may be useful to everyone to know if you've ever experienced your LiFePO4 batteries becoming too warm while charging or while they were under load.

Frankly, I've begun to wonder if the demands of any kind of boating activity on a battery bank would ever push or pull enough amps to raise the temperature of the typical LiFePO4 pack into a hazardous range.
However, if you've had this experience, I would ask that you reply to this message and please describe your setup and conditions for us.

One might say, for instance, you use 100Ah prismatic battery cells in a 16S1P configuration, bound with end-plates and held in a heavy plastic box with lid, and you were {charging|discharging} at a rate of approximately {__ Amps}. Batteries were measured with a {________} at a temperature of {_______}.

This won't be a statistically a meaningful survey, of course, but if anyone *has* had an overheating experience, it could make for safer boating for everyone if the rest of us were to know the particulars.

Thanks so much!

[-tv]
Tom VanderMeulen
"Grace O'Malley"
Cape Dory 27, #257
Monroe, MI

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Monday, February 24, 2020

[electricboats] Steering system maintenance

Avoid the feeling of a wheel loose in your hands with routine steering system checks, before it breaks

My definition of “boat” entails three essential capabilities—flotation, propulsion and steering. If you lose one of these, things are going to get difficult. We all know about keeping the water out, the rig up, and engine working, but we tend to take steering for granted. I have had a wheel go loose in my hands, and I can attest to the helpless feeling that accompanies it.

Now we can go up to the cockpit and look at the wheel. Read this well researched article.

https://prezhost.com/2020/02/25/steering-system-maintenance/

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[electricboats] Why Lithium Marine Batteries are The Best Choice for boats

Whether you're looking to power the deluxe kitchen of a luxury yacht or just the trolling motor on a small fishing boat, there are plenty of good reasons to ditch the acid and switch to lithium batteries for good. Lead acid batteries and other outdated technology is not only extremely cheap in terms of quality, but it's also very expensive to maintain and replace in the long run.

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Sunday, February 23, 2020

Re: [electricboats] 15 KW DC l electric conversikon

Ant bms is programmable with android phone up to 32s

On Sunday, February 23, 2020, 07:14:41 PM PST, Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@gmail.com> wrote:

yes off the shelf BMS products are available on the aliexpress site. a 4th gen BMS about 160.00us

Kevin

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:08 AM cpcanoesailor via Groups.Io <cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

I see that the LTO cells have a nominal cell voltage of 2.3V, which is quite different than the 3.2V nominal voltage for LiFePO4 cells. That means you might have a hard time finding off-the-shelf charge controllers and BMSs that will work with these cells. I guess fully programmable units could be made to work, but IMO there's something reassuring about having the electronics that touch your battery cells just work when you apply power. No programming, no bootstrapping, less stress.

But if you can source suitable electronics, then maybe they are great. Does the manufacturer provide any recommendations for BMS and charge controllers?

Curtis

Re: [electricboats] 15 KW DC l electric conversikon

yes off the shelf BMS products are available on the aliexpress site. a 4th gen BMS about 160.00us

Kevin

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:08 AM cpcanoesailor via Groups.Io <cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

I see that the LTO cells have a nominal cell voltage of 2.3V, which is quite different than the 3.2V nominal voltage for LiFePO4 cells. That means you might have a hard time finding off-the-shelf charge controllers and BMSs that will work with these cells. I guess fully programmable units could be made to work, but IMO there's something reassuring about having the electronics that touch your battery cells just work when you apply power. No programming, no bootstrapping, less stress.

But if you can source suitable electronics, then maybe they are great. Does the manufacturer provide any recommendations for BMS and charge controllers?

Curtis

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Saturday, February 22, 2020

Re: [electricboats] 15 KW DC l electric conversikon

I see that the LTO cells have a nominal cell voltage of 2.3V, which is quite different than the 3.2V nominal voltage for LiFePO4 cells. That means you might have a hard time finding off-the-shelf charge controllers and BMSs that will work with these cells. I guess fully programmable units could be made to work, but IMO there's something reassuring about having the electronics that touch your battery cells just work when you apply power. No programming, no bootstrapping, less stress.

But if you can source suitable electronics, then maybe they are great. Does the manufacturer provide any recommendations for BMS and charge controllers?

Curtis

[electricboats] Good LiPo practice info

A friend of mine with a Tesla sent me this info from a study done.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/21/journal-of-energy-storage-studies-ev-owners-manuals-compiles-best-practices-for-batteries/

Talks about good practice with LiPo's

Steve in Solomons MD

Lagoon 410 S2 E

Friday, February 21, 2020

Re: [electricboats] 15 KW DC l electric conversikon

Hello Kevin. I have completed 5 successful 48 v system installations in various vehicle applications. I am using lithium iron phosphate with very positive success. We have upgraded lead to lifepo4 on golf carts and forklifts. I replaced diesel with 10 kw thunder struck kit First with all 220 ah lead. Then upgrade to lifepo4. I am pleased with the upgrade. New projects coming up include high voltage EV applications. Including energy system charging. We will keep you posted. LTO has some good attributes but I have not gone there yet. Cheers

On Feb 21, 2020, at 4:10 PM, jm dog <jeff@jeff.net> wrote:

I just had a back-and-forth with this company in China. I'm evaluating different packs for my Electric Yacht 20KW, and got this quote based on this thread...

Hi Mr LaCoursiere,

Thanks for your prompt & detailed reply.

For your application of the Yacht battery, we recommend LTO cylindrical 66160 2.3V 40Ah Lithium Titanate (LTO ) cells instead because this model is much easier for your assembly. The 66160 cylindrical cells can be easily connected with connectors while the prismatic cells need laser-welding.

You can make the battery pack in 23S (please check the voltage range of your motor controller) 6P of 6616 2.3V 40Ah for 48V 240Ah.

Price: US$28.5/PC,EXW

Attached please find the datasheet.

And we can supply with full sets of connectors (including 1* copper connector, 2*nuts, 2* screws, 2*spring washers, 2*flat washers as attached picture) at US$ 1.5/Set
What shipping method do you prefer, by sea or by air?

After your confirmation of the Q'ty and shipping method, we will quote you the shipping cost.

Best Regards,

Eliza

Contact was market@kokpower.com.

For the extra weight and roughly higher cost, I'm not sure I will go this way. I'm curious what others think.

Cheers,

j

On 2/21/20 7:02 AM, Kevin Pemberton wrote:

Use Aliexpress, type lto batteries in the search.

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Bill Farina <bill@thirdcoast.us> wrote:

Do you have a link to follow? I'm looking at Alibaba and I'm not sure that I'm seeing what you're referring to.

On 2/16/2020 8:15 PM, Kevin Pemberton wrote:

I just ordered some LTO cells from China. If you are concerned about safety and long life they may be right for you. According to battery university it's not new technology, but manufacturing technology has made them more affordable. I would suggest you read up on them.

Kevin

<Yinlong 66160 40AH.pdf>

Re: [electricboats] 15 KW DC l electric conversikon

I just had a back-and-forth with this company in China. I'm evaluating different packs for my Electric Yacht 20KW, and got this quote based on this thread...

Hi Mr LaCoursiere,

Thanks for your prompt & detailed reply.

For your application of the Yacht battery, we recommend LTO cylindrical 66160 2.3V 40Ah Lithium Titanate (LTO ) cells instead because this model is much easier for your assembly. The 66160 cylindrical cells can be easily connected with connectors while the prismatic cells need laser-welding.

You can make the battery pack in 23S (please check the voltage range of your motor controller) 6P of 6616 2.3V 40Ah for 48V 240Ah.

Price: US$28.5/PC,EXW

Attached please find the datasheet.

And we can supply with full sets of connectors (including 1* copper connector, 2*nuts, 2* screws, 2*spring washers, 2*flat washers as attached picture) at US$ 1.5/Set
What shipping method do you prefer, by sea or by air?

After your confirmation of the Q'ty and shipping method, we will quote you the shipping cost.

Best Regards,

Eliza

Contact was market@kokpower.com.

For the extra weight and roughly higher cost, I'm not sure I will go this way. I'm curious what others think.

Cheers,

On 2/21/20 7:02 AM, Kevin Pemberton wrote:

Use Aliexpress, type lto batteries in the search.

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Bill Farina <bill@thirdcoast.us> wrote:

Do you have a link to follow? I'm looking at Alibaba and I'm not sure that I'm seeing what you're referring to.

On 2/16/2020 8:15 PM, Kevin Pemberton wrote:

I just ordered some LTO cells from China. If you are concerned about safety and long life they may be right for you. According to battery university it's not new technology, but manufacturing technology has made them more affordable. I would suggest you read up on them.

Kevin

Re: [electricboats] 15 KW DC l electric conversikon

Use Aliexpress, type lto batteries in the search.

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Bill Farina <bill@thirdcoast.us> wrote:

Do you have a link to follow? I'm looking at Alibaba and I'm not sure that I'm seeing what you're referring to.

On 2/16/2020 8:15 PM, Kevin Pemberton wrote:

I just ordered some LTO cells from China. If you are concerned about safety and long life they may be right for you. According to battery university it's not new technology, but manufacturing technology has made them more affordable. I would suggest you read up on them.

Kevin

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Wednesday, February 19, 2020

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

I like it. You can also see your intemecent bags turn color to know when they need to be changed out. Thank you for your help.

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 6:20 AM cpcanoesailor via Groups.Io <cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Good point about conformal coating for BMS and other PCBs.

To get wires out of my 'power bag', I cut two matching pieces of sheet (PE?) plastic, about the size of my hand. I drilled matching holes for the trolling motor and aux. 12V sockets, and for two sealed connecting plugs for the solar panel wires. Also holes to mount a plastic door pull on each side, to grip while connecting plugs to the sockets. Then I carefully cut holes in the dry bag to match. I then assembled the plastic panels, plugs and connectors with one panel inside and one outside, coated between with 3M 5200 adhesive sealant, and clamped together using the mounting screws for the plugs and the bolts. After curing for a week, I connected all the wires. It is definitely sealed and strong. The only downside is I need to hang the cable interface because the weight makes the bag slump too much.

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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Good point about conformal coating for BMS and other PCBs.

To get wires out of my 'power bag', I cut two matching pieces of sheet (PE?) plastic, about the size of my hand. I drilled matching holes for the trolling motor and aux. 12V sockets, and for two sealed connecting plugs for the solar panel wires. Also holes to mount a plastic door pull on each side, to grip while connecting plugs to the sockets. Then I carefully cut holes in the dry bag to match. I then assembled the plastic panels, plugs and connectors with one panel inside and one outside, coated between with 3M 5200 adhesive sealant, and clamped together using the mounting screws for the plugs and the bolts. After curing for a week, I connected all the wires. It is definitely sealed and strong. The only downside is I need to hang the cable interface because the weight makes the bag slump too much.

Tuesday, February 18, 2020

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Thank you I'm learning so much from this site! Someone else said put the larger desiccant bags in with the batteries and change them out periodically. Coosa is e-84 tested and has some r-value.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:46 AM Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:

I don't see anything about conformal coating of BMS boards in this long response. Heavy conformal coat is the #1 protection mechanism for most automotive, and particularly EV BMS boards for EVs. Of course, so is also the enclosing of boards in enclosures that dissuade moisture intrusion or provide a means for moisture to escape. On my THINK EV, the battery enclosure (which gets splashed constantly and is not fully sealed) includes eight 3kwh batteries (each with 2 BMS cards and 24 pairs of Enerdel lithium pouches) and at least 3 contactors. The batteries are metal cases with plastic tops. The BMS cards are heavily conformal coated and located underneath the top, but the cases are not at all sealed. People drive these in humid, wet environments and at the coast. I live in Portland, Oregon. Short of driving thru water, these batteries are sealed well enough. The cells themselves would drain off any moisture if they got flooded however the metal cases might entrap water---guess they thought it best to handle "some" water intrusion into the pack, but not enough to flood into the batteries themselves. When people have had issues with these BMS' due to moisture, it has been due to "pooling" of moisture on the conformal coat. It is probably not a good design decision to orient PCB assemblies horizontally---moisture is just happy to sit there. On a boat, there might be more sloshing factor to get the water off horizontal boards. Best if they're oriented vertically.

While completely sealing a module sounds good, moisture 'entrapment' can be worse than just letting it breathe. There are filter breathers that can be used that allow sealing while providing ability of modules to breathe. Works for automobiles…

-mt

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of cpcanoesailor via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:59 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Short answer - no.

Long answer - I built a 1200Wh LiFePO4 pack for my 6m proa (multihull) sailboat. I was very concerned about water intrusion so I put the battery cells, BMS, a 10A solar charge controller and originally a motor controller into a large dry bag with a clear vinyl window so I could see the displays and find the various toggle switches inside (I operate them by pinching the bag around the switch). The plug for the motor, a 12V aux plug, and wires to the solar panel are mounted on a plate that is sealed to the bag near the top. I can open the bag at the top for maintenance, and to add a dessicant pot when the boat sits over the winter. When operating, I use dry dessicant packs to control moisture in the bag.

The battery is physically supported inside the bag using a plastic battery case, and straps and plates to constrain the plastic encased prismatic cells. Outside the bag, there are struts to hold it in place should the boat capsize (I have once before). It's in an open locker at one end of an open cockpit, so sheltered from rain and most spray.

Regarding heat management - the motor controller that I first used would shut down because it didn't have sufficient airflow, so I removed it from the pack. Now, I use a brushless motor with its own integrated controller. I did melt an under-rated main switch, but aside from the switch failing, there was no other damage. Last year, I pushed the pack, and found I could draw 25-30A continuously for at least two hours. I could also draw up to 40A for some time, but eventually, the BMS would shut down the pack, and then re-energize it again after a few minutes. I think this must be due to its own thermal shutdown, so it probably isn't because of cell temperatures. The pack output is protected with a 40A circuit breaker, which I've only tripped once when operating above 30A and passing through some nasty chop that made the propeller cavitate over and over for about 10s. As is, I'd say the pack is adequate for my boating needs, so I don't plan to experiment further. If I plan to travel any distance, I also bring a small gas outboard, but the pack works well for 90% of situations I have encountered. Range has been tested at more than 20km, and solar recharge in 2 sunny days.

My previous capsize was with a smaller flooded lead acid battery, which stayed put, but made a horrible mess in the locker. The only parts of that propulsion system that survived were the motor (usually submerged anyway), and amazingly the solar panel, which survived two hours underwater while the boat was inverted and being towed. I still use it.

While experimenting with CALB prismatic cells I accidentally over-discharged one, causing the cell to vent. It made a small 'puff' sound, and emitted a slight, unusual smell. That was it. No drama. I didn't try to revive the cell, but just recycled it.

Curtis

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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

I don't see anything about conformal coating of BMS boards in this long response. Heavy conformal coat is the #1 protection mechanism for most automotive, and particularly EV BMS boards for EVs. Of course, so is also the enclosing of boards in enclosures that dissuade moisture intrusion or provide a means for moisture to escape. On my THINK EV, the battery enclosure (which gets splashed constantly and is not fully sealed) includes eight 3kwh batteries (each with 2 BMS cards and 24 pairs of Enerdel lithium pouches) and at least 3 contactors. The batteries are metal cases with plastic tops. The BMS cards are heavily conformal coated and located underneath the top, but the cases are not at all sealed. People drive these in humid, wet environments and at the coast. I live in Portland, Oregon. Short of driving thru water, these batteries are sealed well enough. The cells themselves would drain off any moisture if they got flooded however the metal cases might entrap water---guess they thought it best to handle "some" water intrusion into the pack, but not enough to flood into the batteries themselves. When people have had issues with these BMS' due to moisture, it has been due to "pooling" of moisture on the conformal coat. It is probably not a good design decision to orient PCB assemblies horizontally---moisture is just happy to sit there. On a boat, there might be more sloshing factor to get the water off horizontal boards. Best if they're oriented vertically.

While completely sealing a module sounds good, moisture 'entrapment' can be worse than just letting it breathe. There are filter breathers that can be used that allow sealing while providing ability of modules to breathe. Works for automobiles…

-mt

From: electricboats@groups.io [mailto:electricboats@groups.io] On Behalf Of cpcanoesailor via Groups.Io
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 6:59 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Short answer - no.

Long answer - I built a 1200Wh LiFePO4 pack for my 6m proa (multihull) sailboat. I was very concerned about water intrusion so I put the battery cells, BMS, a 10A solar charge controller and originally a motor controller into a large dry bag with a clear vinyl window so I could see the displays and find the various toggle switches inside (I operate them by pinching the bag around the switch). The plug for the motor, a 12V aux plug, and wires to the solar panel are mounted on a plate that is sealed to the bag near the top. I can open the bag at the top for maintenance, and to add a dessicant pot when the boat sits over the winter. When operating, I use dry dessicant packs to control moisture in the bag.

The battery is physically supported inside the bag using a plastic battery case, and straps and plates to constrain the plastic encased prismatic cells. Outside the bag, there are struts to hold it in place should the boat capsize (I have once before). It's in an open locker at one end of an open cockpit, so sheltered from rain and most spray.

Regarding heat management - the motor controller that I first used would shut down because it didn't have sufficient airflow, so I removed it from the pack. Now, I use a brushless motor with its own integrated controller. I did melt an under-rated main switch, but aside from the switch failing, there was no other damage. Last year, I pushed the pack, and found I could draw 25-30A continuously for at least two hours. I could also draw up to 40A for some time, but eventually, the BMS would shut down the pack, and then re-energize it again after a few minutes. I think this must be due to its own thermal shutdown, so it probably isn't because of cell temperatures. The pack output is protected with a 40A circuit breaker, which I've only tripped once when operating above 30A and passing through some nasty chop that made the propeller cavitate over and over for about 10s. As is, I'd say the pack is adequate for my boating needs, so I don't plan to experiment further. If I plan to travel any distance, I also bring a small gas outboard, but the pack works well for 90% of situations I have encountered. Range has been tested at more than 20km, and solar recharge in 2 sunny days.

My previous capsize was with a smaller flooded lead acid battery, which stayed put, but made a horrible mess in the locker. The only parts of that propulsion system that survived were the motor (usually submerged anyway), and amazingly the solar panel, which survived two hours underwater while the boat was inverted and being towed. I still use it.

While experimenting with CALB prismatic cells I accidentally over-discharged one, causing the cell to vent. It made a small 'puff' sound, and emitted a slight, unusual smell. That was it. No drama. I didn't try to revive the cell, but just recycled it.

Curtis

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Thank you. I like the drybag idea but how do you get the cables sealed if you don't mind me asking?

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 6:59 AM cpcanoesailor via Groups.Io <cpcanoesailor=yahoo.ca@groups.io> wrote:

Short answer - no.

Long answer - I built a 1200Wh LiFePO4 pack for my 6m proa (multihull) sailboat. I was very concerned about water intrusion so I put the battery cells, BMS, a 10A solar charge controller and originally a motor controller into a large dry bag with a clear vinyl window so I could see the displays and find the various toggle switches inside (I operate them by pinching the bag around the switch). The plug for the motor, a 12V aux plug, and wires to the solar panel are mounted on a plate that is sealed to the bag near the top. I can open the bag at the top for maintenance, and to add a dessicant pot when the boat sits over the winter. When operating, I use dry dessicant packs to control moisture in the bag.

The battery is physically supported inside the bag using a plastic battery case, and straps and plates to constrain the plastic encased prismatic cells. Outside the bag, there are struts to hold it in place should the boat capsize (I have once before). It's in an open locker at one end of an open cockpit, so sheltered from rain and most spray.

Regarding heat management - the motor controller that I first used would shut down because it didn't have sufficient airflow, so I removed it from the pack. Now, I use a brushless motor with its own integrated controller. I did melt an under-rated main switch, but aside from the switch failing, there was no other damage. Last year, I pushed the pack, and found I could draw 25-30A continuously for at least two hours. I could also draw up to 40A for some time, but eventually, the BMS would shut down the pack, and then re-energize it again after a few minutes. I think this must be due to its own thermal shutdown, so it probably isn't because of cell temperatures. The pack output is protected with a 40A circuit breaker, which I've only tripped once when operating above 30A and passing through some nasty chop that made the propeller cavitate over and over for about 10s. As is, I'd say the pack is adequate for my boating needs, so I don't plan to experiment further. If I plan to travel any distance, I also bring a small gas outboard, but the pack works well for 90% of situations I have encountered. Range has been tested at more than 20km, and solar recharge in 2 sunny days.

My previous capsize was with a smaller flooded lead acid battery, which stayed put, but made a horrible mess in the locker. The only parts of that propulsion system that survived were the motor (usually submerged anyway), and amazingly the solar panel, which survived two hours underwater while the boat was inverted and being towed. I still use it.

While experimenting with CALB prismatic cells I accidentally over-discharged one, causing the cell to vent. It made a small 'puff' sound, and emitted a slight, unusual smell. That was it. No drama. I didn't try to revive the cell, but just recycled it.

Curtis

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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Short answer - no.

Curtis

Monday, February 17, 2020

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

These batteries are in a skiff, so definitely open to the sky. I'm just trying to get lithium batteries into it to enjoy fast charging while being capable of low DOD. Someone said make your own battery box out of Coosa with a gasgeted lid to make it "IP rated" then use rain tite connectors with pigtails with Anderson connectors.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 8:25 PM Brian Dolan <kd5crs@gmail.com> wrote:

You don't dunk an AGM "without consequence". Depending on the conductivity of the water and the charge on the battery, you are pulling the hydrogen out of the water and the chlorine out of the salt. Not too big a deal in an open boat, very bad in an enclosed space like an overturned catamaran. That's why you want to prevent all batteries from being immersed.

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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

You don't dunk an AGM "without consequence". Depending on the conductivity of the water and the charge on the battery, you are pulling the hydrogen out of the water and the chlorine out of the salt. Not too big a deal in an open boat, very bad in an enclosed space like an overturned catamaran. That's why you want to prevent all batteries from being immersed.

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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

If the battery is sufficiently sealed so that water does not get inside, and it has a bms / fuse - then it should hopefully not "run away". Salt water is much more conductive than fresh water. Not sure how many amps could possibly pass between terminals - I wouldn't think a LOT - as the resistance is still pretty high. And in the event of a dead short - many battery sets should have a fuse that would quickly blow. The BMS should detect a high discharge, and also attempt to shut down the battery.

Of course, this depends on who put the battery together, whether it includes a fuse, etc. If you're putting your own system together - it's up to you to put a fuse in directly at the battery.

On Monday, February 17, 2020, 08:45:23 PM CST, mosslandingcreatures <mosslandingcreatures@gmail.com> wrote:

That's perhaps the conundrum. Coming ashore sooner or later (cruisers) you're going to broach your dingy and water will most certainly invade the typical vented battery box. No prob with AGM because I've dunked them many times without consequence. A lithium battery with BMS I've been told will at least ruin the battery or worse start a runaway when immersed in saltwater? I wish I knew of any electric skiff cruisers that knew the answer using lithium. I am very anti ICE but maybe for my own safety I'll have to go back to it. Why do people vent battery boxes if the battery inside will not emit explosive gases? (Lithium).

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:45 PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent point, Phil, and not to mention that ABYC Standards call for ventilation of the battery box or compartment to prevent the concentration of any escaping toxic or flammable gasses.
[-tv]

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 5:45 PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:

Excellent point, Phil, and not to mention that ABYC Standards call for ventilation of the battery box or compartment to prevent the concentration of any escaping toxic or flammable gasses.
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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Running hard 85 - 90 amps only 4 + hours. When I back off to 5 knots around 45 -50amps.

Best regards,

Larry Schmitz

On Monday, February 17, 2020, 5:48 PM, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:

Larry: Just curious. What amps are you pulling from your 16S4P, 360Ah battery pack when you're running for those 5 hours?

Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Larry: Just curious. What amps are you pulling from your 16S4P, 360Ah battery pack when you're running for those 5 hours?

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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Excellent point, Phil, and not to mention that ABYC Standards call for ventilation of the battery box or compartment to prevent the concentration of any escaping toxic or flammable gasses.
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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

YouTubes can be wonderful entertainment, but I really don't get the connection between someone throwing lithium into a tub of water has to do with this discussion. The reactivity of lithium with water is a given and is not being debated here. The question is whether folks who use LiFePO4 batteries have ever experienced over-heating, and if so what the conditions and circumstances were.
Could you expand perhaps on how you feel that YouTube informs the conversation?
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Re: [electricboats] Do your LiFePO4 batteries ever get too warm?

Also I think having an over sealed box may pose an issue with heavy condensation forming. Just a thought. Some air flow I think would be beneficial.

Phil

On Monday, February 17, 2020, 12:43:15 a.m. EST, THOMAS VANDERMEULEN <tvinypsi@gmail.com> wrote:

Larry & MossLandingCreatures:
Presumably, nobody will be disassembling their LiFePO4 battery cells while operating their boat. Practical tests indicate that the main hazard with immersion in sea water is the potential for arcing across the terminals, and not necessarily water intrusion into the case where the moisture can interact with the Lithium.
The CALB SE200SI cells I'm using, for instance (prismatics, and not cylindrical cells) have a mfg specification requiring that they endure submersion in sea water for 2 hours without fire or explosion. Some tests indicate the possible leakage of electrolyte in these circumstances, but no explosions or fires. Fresh water immersion (for us Great Lakes sailors) poses a somewhat lower risk.
IMHO, a cover over whatever box you're containing (and restraining!) your cells in, ought to avoid any issues except where you've holed your boat and you're literally sinking, or you've rolled your vessel and flooded the mechanical compartment.
It doesn't seem practical to protect against EVERY possible negative scenario.
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