Monday, June 25, 2018

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410

 

Hi Fred

How many time do you really have with only your 2x50 amp ( before using the generator)?

Cordialement
Pascal Morin
0690207491

Le 8 juin 2018 à 10:10, Berlouin Fred berlouin@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :

 

Hi Pascal

I have a 45' electric sailboat. I did the conversion. I do not regret. Throw overboard those two alcoholic, stinky, smoky crews maned Diesel … They are from another millennium.

Beware… they will try to come back onboard by all means or as avatar called technician or mechanical engineer. Be without mercy…. feed the sharks.

 

For your cat, I will guess the 2 x 5kw motors could be enough, but it does not cost much more to get 2 x 10kw. I have 1 x AC20 HPEVs rated 7hp only, and it is more powerful than a 25hp diesel.

2 x 50 amps lithium batteries are fine, they are only 25kg each. you can always add more with the time if you need. They are easy to fix. Don't bother with lead batteries, it does not worth it ( I have 2 x 50 amps…a backup battery is useful). 48v is fine, it is safe and common. For the charger, I will recommend an IP rating.

A small generator gives more confidence for sailing  and more comfort to live onboard.

About regeneration under sail, I don't get any. When I switch on the electric motor, the shaft slows down from 200 RPM to 30 RPM !.  With your cat, you may get a trickle from 8-10 knots sailing speed.

 

Oceanvolt and others have electric sail drives… I don't know the price. It will be a big boatbuilder job to fix new propeller shafts, shaft bearings and build up a 10mm steel structure to receive the new electric motors ...... Otherwise, find your electric motor, get the right gearhead with a compatible face and the proper reduction matching your propeller. There are so many gearheads from agriculture machine to IT robotic, google to find yours. The tricky point may be the coupling between the existing sail drive leg and the gearhead output. With a little of laser cut and DIY, you will get your way

Two improvements from my conversion would be:

-Regeneration at common and comfortable cruising sailing  speed.

-Wireless controller for the electric motor in marina, anchoring, sail handling…

Don't use any German product if you don't want to speak German, if you don't want an Hitlerian cross on your boat or if you want to use your boat.

I hope those few words will help. Have fun.  Good luck


On Thursday, June 7, 2018, 4:56:08 AM GMT+12, mike@electricyachtssocal.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

I believe that the Lagoon 410 has Yanmar saildrives.  My recommendation would be to replace both the motor and saildrive as the most prudent way to go. Yanmar saildrives from that era are known to have issues.  You would be well served with two 20kW electric motors to replace the 35-40hp diesels originally installed by the builder.  They would also be well matched with a single 10 to 15kW generator that would provide range extension, reduce battery weight, and support reasonable cruising speed.

I am not fully up to date on all saildrive options, but would think you should look at these vendors: Electric Yacht, OceanVolt, and Torqeedo for marine grade systems.  There may be others that I am not aware of. 

Mike
Electric Yacht Pacific

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Tuesday, June 19, 2018

[Electric Boats] Re: 1983 Duffy 18 Thunderstruck conversion completed: 131MPGe

 

HI Benjablog,
Would you happen to have any pictures of how you completed the connection to the shaft and the motor mounting?  I have a 1996 classic 18 and I'm considering the same conversion.  Thanks!
Jim

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Sunday, June 17, 2018

[Electric Boats] throttle

 

I just replaced a Sevcon Millipak with a Sevcon Gen4 on a Solidnav unit. Turns out the 5k ohm Potentiometer is broken. Is the controller programmed to the specific pot or will any 5k ohm potentiometer work?

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Friday, June 8, 2018

[Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410

 

Hi Pascal,
Motors are brushless ME0913 from Motenergy (5kw. I believe); packaged and programmed by Electric Yacht using Sevcon 4 controllers and belt reduction. E.Y. need to have Sevcon 'brain' returned to them to make any changes to the controller. (I'm not smart enough to program them myself). Motors get a little warm. I understand they are discontinued. New one is ME1306.
My 48v. battery banks are 700ah each. (Got a deal from Balqon)
Electric Yacht recommended 260ah. for 3-4 hours motoring (if I remember).
So far we have motored about 8 hours under batteries alone.
We have Honda 2000 generator on board; 110v. into the charger. We can motor as long as we have enough gas (petrol). Solar panels will be installed on the hard Bimini soon.
The Farrier hull shape is finer than yours - so doesn't take a lot to move the boat.
We had mast problems soon after launch (still waiting for replacement); so have not sailed enough to check out regen; but from all info. found on this forum - we should get some regen. over 6 knots. We only need 10 kts. of wind for that.
48v. battery chargers are Chinese, purchased from Elcon in Sacramento. Do NOT deal with them - they will not answer questions about the products they sell. Chargers are programmed to cut off charge at 56.8v. (conservative)! The chargers are available under different brand names from others.
We use Victron battery monitors.
Cheers
Graham

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Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410

 

Hi Pascal

I have a 45' electric sailboat. I did the conversion. I do not regret. Throw overboard those two alcoholic, stinky, smoky crews maned Diesel … They are from another millennium.

Beware… they will try to come back onboard by all means or as avatar called technician or mechanical engineer. Be without mercy…. feed the sharks.

 

For your cat, I will guess the 2 x 5kw motors could be enough, but it does not cost much more to get 2 x 10kw. I have 1 x AC20 HPEVs rated 7hp only, and it is more powerful than a 25hp diesel.

2 x 50 amps lithium batteries are fine, they are only 25kg each. you can always add more with the time if you need. They are easy to fix. Don't bother with lead batteries, it does not worth it ( I have 2 x 50 amps…a backup battery is useful). 48v is fine, it is safe and common. For the charger, I will recommend an IP rating.

A small generator gives more confidence for sailing  and more comfort to live onboard.

About regeneration under sail, I don't get any. When I switch on the electric motor, the shaft slows down from 200 RPM to 30 RPM !.  With your cat, you may get a trickle from 8-10 knots sailing speed.

 

Oceanvolt and others have electric sail drives… I don't know the price. It will be a big boatbuilder job to fix new propeller shafts, shaft bearings and build up a 10mm steel structure to receive the new electric motors ... Otherwise, find your electric motor, get the right gearhead with a compatible face and the proper reduction matching your propeller. There are so many gearheads from agriculture machine to IT robotic, google to find yours. The tricky point may be the coupling between the existing sail drive leg and the gearhead output. With a little of laser cut and DIY, you will get your way

Two improvements from my conversion would be:

-Regeneration at common and comfortable cruising sailing  speed.

-Wireless controller for the electric motor in marina, anchoring, sail handling…

Don't use any German product if you don't want to speak German, if you don't want an Hitlerian cross on your boat or if you want to use your boat.

I hope those few words will help. Have fun.  Good luck


On Thursday, June 7, 2018, 4:56:08 AM GMT+12, mike@electricyachtssocal.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

I believe that the Lagoon 410 has Yanmar saildrives.  My recommendation would be to replace both the motor and saildrive as the most prudent way to go. Yanmar saildrives from that era are known to have issues.  You would be well served with two 20kW electric motors to replace the 35-40hp diesels originally installed by the builder.  They would also be well matched with a single 10 to 15kW generator that would provide range extension, reduce battery weight, and support reasonable cruising speed.

I am not fully up to date on all saildrive options, but would think you should look at these vendors: Electric Yacht, OceanVolt, and Torqeedo for marine grade systems.  There may be others that I am not aware of. 

Mike
Electric Yacht Pacific

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Posted by: Berlouin Fred <berlouin@yahoo.com>
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Re: [Electric Boats] Project lagoon 410

 

Higher voltage is better.
More modern controllers are better.

More energy dense motive battery cells/modules are better.

Everything depends and "better" is relative.

On 06/06/2018 03:22, squalmail@gmail.com [electricboats] wrote:
>
> Hello
>
>
> I would to change my olds yanmar 3GM30 (27hp) on my catamaran lagoon
> 410 (1998) by electric solution.
>
> Who can help me to find the best and inexpensive solution, please.
>
> Best regards
>
> Pascal Morin
> Guadeloupe
>

--
-hanermo (cnc designs)

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Posted by: Hannu Venermo <gcode.fi@gmail.com>
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Thursday, June 7, 2018

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410

 

Hi
Thank you. Sorry I have lot of questions.
What's the power of your electrics motors and how many amp in your battery bank?
How many time in motor sailing mode
Do you Regen when wind sailing?

Best regards
Pascal

Cordialement
Pascal et Emilie
0690207491

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of GMcG grahammcglashan@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 11:42:15 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410
 
 

Pascal,
My Farrier F-41 has Sillette sail drives, which were fitted to Electric Yacht 48v. systems.
I use Thundersky lithium batteries, and have no battery balancing system. Monitoring only. We just check individual module voltage occasionally.
Check out the 'Lithium batteries for use in house banks' on Cruisers Forum for the care and feeding of a Lithium bank.
Very happy with performance. We use Kiwi feathering props.
System is light weight and simple.
Bon chance.
Graham

Sent from my iPad

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Posted by: Pascal MORIN <squalmail@gmail.com>
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[Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410

 

Pascal,
My Farrier F-41 has Sillette sail drives, which were fitted to Electric Yacht 48v. systems.
I use Thundersky lithium batteries, and have no battery balancing system. Monitoring only. We just check individual module voltage occasionally.
Check out the 'Lithium batteries for use in house banks' on Cruisers Forum for the care and feeding of a Lithium bank.
Very happy with performance. We use Kiwi feathering props.
System is light weight and simple.
Bon chance.
Graham

Sent from my iPad

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Posted by: GMcG <grahammcglashan@gmail.com>
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Wednesday, June 6, 2018

[Electric Boats] Re: Project lagoon 410

 

I believe that the Lagoon 410 has Yanmar saildrives.  My recommendation would be to replace both the motor and saildrive as the most prudent way to go. Yanmar saildrives from that era are known to have issues.  You would be well served with two 20kW electric motors to replace the 35-40hp diesels originally installed by the builder.  They would also be well matched with a single 10 to 15kW generator that would provide range extension, reduce battery weight, and support reasonable cruising speed.

I am not fully up to date on all saildrive options, but would think you should look at these vendors: Electric Yacht, OceanVolt, and Torqeedo for marine grade systems.  There may be others that I am not aware of. 

Mike
Electric Yacht Pacific

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Posted by: mike@electricyachtssocal.com
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RE: [Electric Boats] Project lagoon 410

 

So the story goes….

Lagoon was approached by Solomons Tech back in the early 2000's to install their system in the 410. The boats performed great even with the 12 lead acid batteries Lagoon provided. Then there was a shake up at Solomons and this gave Lagoon the opportunity to dump Solomons and go their own way. Solomons system was based on a 144V which went on to be installed in such manufactures as GunBoat and other smaller production boat manufactures. Lagoon decided that they were going to run a 72V system in the new 420, make it a fully automatic system and market it to the charter companies in the Carib. Well this didn't go as planned. Renters (who tend to motor more than sail) were burning up the propulsion packs, the Auto system didn't work right, and the Management companies down there didn't have the tech to fix them so they kept on breaking. The stock Lead acid batteries where failing do to the high cycle rate as well. To go along with this the 420 hull was designed around the batteries, wider and flatter. This didn't help the sailing ability so it was deemed a slow boat.  The owners (those that put them in charter) of the boats were not happy, charter companies weren't happy, so Lagoon offered to retro fit the 420 with dyno motors. This got a really bad rap for Lagoon so no new boats were ever offered Electric. I have heard that there is a 440 and I think a 450 that are electric but don't think they are factory, Probably a Solomons retro fit.  

As far as saildirves go I would get rid of it and go with a shaft. I've never heard anything good about saildrives and the amount of maintenance required (my opinion). A straight shaft is simple and requires minimum maintenance as well as simplicity to install electric drives.

 

Steve in Solomons MD

Lagoon 410 SE

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:06 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Project lagoon 410

 




Hi Steve

 

Thank for your message.

I heard about electric lagoon and the owners handed over diesel engines. What is the reason for this failure?
I'm sailing always with the wind, in the Caribbean, and i use engine only to go in or out marina or moorings. on rare exception i use engine when there is no wind.
I have solar panel (300w) and a D400 aerogen. I would like to exploit the regeneration under sail and put additional solar panels eventually.
I understand that a genset for security is necessary but i would like never use. My first idea is 10kw brushless (my wife said why not a 20kw), controller with regen fonction, and before reading you and 144V  I would 42V battery, type of battery not decided cause the price for now.
a problem for me to solve is how to put the electric motor on the SD20 saildrive?
Pascal
Guadeloupe
 

 

 

2018-06-06 8:46 GMT-04:00 'Steve Dolan' sdolan@scannersllc.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>:

 

[Attachment(s) from Steve Dolan included below]

Pascal,

I have 1 of the 3 Lagoon (2004) 410's built with Electric drives.

The system is no longer produced as a "kit" from Solomons Technologies but if there is anything I can help with just ask. I'm running LiPo4 batteries from CALB and a 144V system which I couldn't be happier with.. Here are a few things to consider.

Your going to need a 21KW GenSet for extended run times. This is enough AMPS to not only run at full speed under the genset but also charge the battery Pack at the same time.

With the LiPo4'S you will need a BMS. I'm using the ORION BMS with the Andromeda Display at the helm to monitor the batteries and motors.

Attached is a general system layout.

The ST74 motors put out 12HP per side. I do 6 to 7 knots.

In general a system like mine would run around $40K.

 

So it's not the least expensive system out there, I'm sure there are a few others that may be cheaper however I would go 144V for the low amp draw.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Steve in Solomon MD

Lagoon 410 SE

 

 



Hello

 

I would to change my olds yanmar 3GM30 (27hp) on my catamaran lagoon 410 (1998) by electric solution.

 

Who can help me to find the best and inexpensive solution, please.

 

Best regards

 

Pascal Morin

Guadeloupe

 



 




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Posted by: "Steve Dolan" <sdolan@scannersllc.com>
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