Friday, September 12, 2014

Re: [Electric Boats] Re:New Member and question about displacement

 

Hannu, I have a couple of comments and questions regarding your last email.

1/3 of the energy wasted in the drivetrain: Are you referring to inboard installations? If so, such high drivetrain losses are really a lot more than I have estimated in my project! 
I might choose to use a 1:1.91 Volvo Penta MS reverse gear beetween the electric motor and the propeller shaft. I measured (by simple methods) the torque due to friction of a unloaded gear: 0.5Nm (I do not know what dependence a load has to the friction in the gear...)
At a motor speed of 1000rpm this is approx a loss eof 50W. If deliverd power from the motor is 2000W at 4,5 - 5 knots speed (a rough estimate), the loss in the gearbox is only 2,5%.
The propellershaft seems to rotate relatively freely in the "casing pipe" (google translate:), so I expect little loss here.
Comments?

Finding the right propeller is also one og mye challenges. I tried local "propeller experts", but with no luck. The answer was "we have noe experience with electric motors" :-/ It should not matter what the power source is...(?!)
Are there any "rule of thumb" when choosing propeller for a boat of 3500kg, 27" displacement hull? If the motor is the be mounted directly on the propeller shaft the continous motor speed should be at minimum 800rpm.
I picked up a propeller-book at the library. I find the propeller theory quite difficult to absorb, but I will continue untill I get some more insight to the field.

Regards Bendik

2014-09-12 10:26 GMT+02:00 Hannu Venermo gcode.fi@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>:
 

Absolutely.

And the common boat has a prop and drive system that is very ineffcient.
The desirable thing to do would be to go to a prop 2-3 sizes large than
commonly used.

The problem is you would need to change the driveshaft as well, as an
efficient prop wont fit in the standard aperture.
As such, this is almost never done.
Also, large props are expensive.

In normal boats (inboards) you have gearboxes that requite cooling, and
large hot oil and hydraulic coolers.
All the heat is inefficiency (as is all noise).
Heat does not appear from zero - work and then friction creates it. All
heat created is a loss vs. having that energy go to the prop.

The driveline wastes about 1/3 the energy.
The prop wastes about 1/3 to 2/3 the energy. Normal props are very
inffefficient at most speeds.

So, only about 1/6 of the energy actually goes to move the boat !

This is illustrated by numerous conversions done with small engines, and
or large props, where relatively tiny engines move relatively very big
boats.

On 11/09/2014 02:33, John Acord jcacord@gmail.com [electricboats] wrote:
> From reading various sources it seemed that a larger prop turning
> slower would give a more efficient transfer of the power.
>
> Also, I have heard that running the motors at lower rpm under load
> results in undesirable heating, thus the choice of a higher gear ratio.
>
> I found a listing in the Michigan Propeller catalog showing that there
> are some Evinrude & Johnson outboards with 2.42:1 gears. Since I am
> starting from scratch, not having an existing outboard in hand,
> thought I might look for one of those.
>
> thanks,
> John

--
-hanermo (cnc designs)


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Posted by: Bendik Vignes <bendik.vignes@yahoo.com>
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