Stephen,
are you in the clearlake area? I have a columbia 36 that I have
converted and would be very interested in exchanging information with
you --
Thanks
Lamar
On Oct 7, 2009, at 9:56 AM, MSN Stephen wrote:
> Nicely stated Mike. I've got a 1977 Islander 36' that I converted a
> few
> years ago because the ICE was at the end of life and very
> undependable. I'm
> using mine just as you describe and I'm very pleased with it. I hope
> to
> eventually put in a small genset to replace the Honda 2000 but for
> now this
> setup works well for us.
>
> Once in blow (30+ knots), with the old ICE still aboard, we
> struggled to
> keep the boat in the ship channel on the way home from Galveston. The
> engine was overheating and the ride aboard was atrocious. It was
> obvious
> we'd be aground when the engine failed if we kept trying to motor
> into this
> wind. After putting up our "blade" jib we turned off the engine and
> had a
> much more comfortable and controlled sail until the storm abated.
> After
> all, they ain't motorboats.
>
> Stephen D. Study
>
> Hard a-Glee, 1977 Islander 36'
>
> From: electricboats@
> ]
> On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 8:37 AM
> To: electricboats@
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb
> sailboat
>
> I'm just about to finish up my second season with electric
> propulsion and I
> am more and more convinced I made the right decision and would not
> ever go
> back to diesel. But, Rob does bring up some things that each sailor
> should
> consider thoughtfully. It took me months to decide to go the
> electric route.
> I am glad I did but, not without thinking things through. Here are
> some of
> my thoughts and what I found after converting to electric propulsion.
>
> 1) I own a SAILBOAT. That is how I prefer to propel the boat. The
> motor is
> just auxiliary propulsion. The "prudent" mariner should be aware that
> anything mechanical or electrical can fail and should sail
> accordingly and
> have a backup plan. If you sail halfway out into the ocean because
> the wind
> was there on a joyride day sail instead of tacking and making sure
> you'll be
> able to get back to port if the winds should die. IMO you have not
> been a
> prudent mariner. I should not even have to mention that one should
> have
> listened to the weather forecast before setting out too. But, that
> goes for
> having a diesel on board too. I've read many stories where people
> depended
> on their auxiliary diesels only to have them fail to start because
> of fuel
> and or other problems.
>
> 2) Going electric has also made me a better sailor. Because I know the
> limitations of my "auxiliary" propulsion system. I do everything in
> my power
> not to use it and to keep it charged up for when I do need it. That
> means I
> tend to sail out of the harbor or at least have the sail up so I
> don't need
> to use the electric propulsion system as much. But, I know that it
> is ready
> to get me out of a jam when I need it. When I had a diesel I would
> always
> motor out. Because I already had the diesel warmed up and you never
> know
> when it might not start for whatever reason. Yes, I don't get out of
> the
> harbor as fast (my choice because I don't want to use more amps than
> I need)
> but, I enjoy the ride especially the quietness of the journey and I
> shut it
> down ASAP with just a turn of a switch.
>
> 3) If I do need to operate under electric propulsion for an extended
> period
> of time I will crank up the Honda 2000i generator. This can be done
> at my
> leisure where as a diesel needs to be started ASAP in order to make
> any
> headway or to get out of a dangerous situation. I on the other hand
> can
> operate under battery power for say ten or fifteen minutes to see if
> conditions change or the wind shifts or increases before I decide
> whether to
> crank up the generator. Also when using the generator it will extend
> the
> range of the battery bank and when watching the battery current
> meter I can
> adjust the throttle to make sure I am either minimizing the drain on
> the
> battery bank or actually charging the bank a little while still making
> headway.
>
> 4) When I had a diesel engine I carried around 30 plus gallons of
> diesel
> fuel on board whether I used it or not. With electric propulsion I
> find that
> 5 gallons of gas (stored on deck) is plenty for 70-100 mile cruises
> that I
> make. After the cruise is done I can take whats left and put it into
> my car
> gas tank and get fresh fuel for the next cruise. I could not do that
> with
> the diesel fuel and was always worried about it going bad in the tank
> requiring fuel polishing or having it clogging the fuel filters
> causing an
> engine failure. As happened to me coming into Boston harbor a few
> years ago.
>
> 5) I remind myself that boats were sailing these waters long before
> people
> started to put engines into sailboats facing the same conditions we
> faced
> without engines and/or motors.
>
> Yes, there are limitations to electric propulsion compared to a diesel
> engine but, I find the benefits to out way them and make adjustments
> accordingly. The result is I am enjoying my sailing time much more and
> spending less time and $$$ on maintenance of the propulsion system.
>
> Mike
> http://biankablog.
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 10/7/09, Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@
> <mailto:dopeydriver
>
> From: Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@
> <mailto:dopeydriver
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb
> sailboat
> To: electricboats@
> >
> Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 4:14 AM
>
> Jason , without a doubt some of the new purpose built boats , like
> the cat
> you are looking at , are superb boats , no doubt with a high degree of
> safety factor .
> But I worry about some of the retrofits , in particular.
> In my case my boat is a 22 ft Iain Oughtred Grey Seal centre board
> gaff
> cutter that I am repowering , and I really would have liked to have
> been
> able to use silent electric power for most of the time I am using
> other than
> wind power.
> Without tearing my beautiful boat apart , there was no way I could
> go all
> electric power , and certainly not with the degree of safety I have
> with
> even my old I/C engine.
> For me , I was really sweating on Hybrid Marine , I think their
> system would
> be perfect for me , it would give me the best of both worlds.
> But I'm not prepared to wait for it , so I have opted for a
> Lombardini LDW
> 502 M.
> I know that will take me wherever I want to go , in relative safety ,
> easily.
> The example I mention on my last post , well I have been on that
> trip , but
> with the wind and current behind me , surfing along at 10 knots in a
> couta
> boat .
> But what if I had wanted to go the other way ?.
> I believe we should set up for the "worst case scenario" , because
> if you
> don't , one day you well may regret your lack of foresight.
> Another thing .
> I am working with a boatbuilder of 40 years experience , and I sail
> with men
> of the sea with just as much , or greater experience on the water.
> They won't have petrol , or LPG on a boat , end of story.
> That of necessity includes outboards.
> Simply because petrol is such a volatile , and dangerous substance .
> Sounds a bit extreme , but these men used petrol engines in the
> past , and
> when diesels became available with better power to weight ratios ,
> they
> changed all of the petrols out for diesels.
> Where does spilled petrol go ?.
> Where does leaking LPG go ?.
> Are the men of the sea receptive to electric power ? , yes , very
> much so ,
> but they are realists , and any system has to be shown to be
> better , and
> safer , before they will take it on , they aren't doing it for some
> "warm
> and fuzzy feeling".
> Deal with reality , and stay safe.
> Regards Rob J.
> --- On Wed, 7/10/09, jasegard <no_reply@yahoogrou
>
> From: jasegard <no_reply@yahoogrou
> Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb sailboat
> To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
> Received: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009, 8:52 AM
>
> Totally agree with you Rob,
>
> I hear and see a lot about this but I never get any firm examples of
> different set ups. I've been looking into this for a long time now.
> I'm
> looking to do it with a light weight 40-50 ft Catamaran and I don't
> want to
> have to rely on a Generator. It seems if we were to do it it would
> be a
> certain part experimental. Try this link for some basic case studies
> of
> monos with electric drives.
>
> http://www.electric motor.net. au/casestories. html
>
> At the moment we are in the Philippines and about to commission a 40ft
> Fusion Catamaran that has a Glacier Bay set up onboard. I will be
> sure to
> write up here about our experiences once we are in the water. Shall
> also
> get some pictures up of the set up.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jason
>
> --- In electricboats@ yahoogroups. com, Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@ ...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Don , once again , you would need to be specific.
> > Batteries used to propulsion I believe should be seperated from
> house
> batteries , otherwise if you got in a situation where the batteries
> ran down
> , not only would you lose power , but also the use of a lot of
> instruments ,
> radio etc.
> > But even running a 20,000 lb boat on 4 batteries , where is it
> safe or
> astute to do that ?.
> > Is it going to be enough to work for hours in to a head wind , or
> a strong
> current ?.
> > I would dearly like to go to electric power , thats why I've been
> on this
> forum for some time , but I've yet to see anything safe enough to
> use in my
> environment , and I suspect the same would be true for a lot of other
> forumites.
> > Regards Rob J.
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/10/09, postal6@... <postal6@... > wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: postal6@... <postal6@... >
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb sailboat
> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
> > Received: Wednesday, 7 October, 2009, 7:56 AM
> >
> >
> > Usually electric propulsion systems are less weight than the
> original
> > gas/diesel set-up. Most sailing vessels utilize two batteries, and
> the
> > addition of two more is less than the weight of a half filled gas/
> diesel
> > tank. And comparing the weight of a gas or diesel engine, with
> > transmission, to a Mars electric motor is quite a drastic weight
> > differential. Less weight, less chance of flammable explosion, would
> > make any insurance entity happy. And if lead cell batteries cause a
> > safety concern, alternative
> > batteries are available.
> > Don Swanson
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:48:56 +0200 "Alan Ford" <alanford@.. .>
> > writes:
> >
> > Gday all
> > Replacing keel mass ( in a sailing vessel) with batteries is going
> to
> > affect your boats stability curve, and quite possibly then any
> insurance
> > cover you may have, as you are altering an original design parameter
> > pertaining to safety.
> > rgds
> > Alan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: aweekdaysailor
> > To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 6:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Repowering 40' 1975 20,000 lb sailboat
> >
> > Futher confirmation that the "sweet spot" - sailboats < ~30' holds.
> >
> > The combination of cheap mass-produced components (golf carts...)
> in the
> > appropriate power range (6HP) and the ICE weight-credit to
> > energy-capacity/ range curve make this a very viable target. Much
> over
> > that, and the power requirements start to overwhelm the load-bearing
> > capacity of the vessel using lead-acid and the budget of the owner
> if
> > using LiPO4.
> >
> > AC Motor with AC generators maybe? It's just a series-hybrid at that
> > point but could still be supplemented with a big inverter/charger
> and a
> > moderate battery-bank for harbor maneuvers.
> >
> > Denny has suggested taking some weight off the keel to compensate
> - that
> > would help push the envelope to larger boats. In fact the first
> time I
> > read about an electric conversion it was a concrete-keel Rawson 30
> where
> > the owner had chisled out the concrete to make room/capacity for the
> > batteries. Not too many of those available unfortunately, so we're
> left
> > with chopping lead (or iron...)
> >
> > Hollow (filled fiberglass) keels on some boats?...hmmm. ..
> >
> > Any marine architects on the list?
> >
> > -Keith
> >
> > --- In electricboats@ yahoogroups. com, <joec_43@> wrote:
> >
> > > I received two prices for converting, and without batteries, is
> getting
> > close to $12,000 US. Out of my ballpark, and no savings in the
> long run
> > at all.
> >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> >
> >
> >
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Lamar Felder
lamarfelder.
713 517 0516
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