T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Charging Question

Tuesday, June 2, 2009

Re: [Electric Boats] Charging Question

Colin (is it G. Irvan or Girvan?),

Great question (charging off the grid). For adverse weather, it seems an onboard generator or direct drive ICE is always on the table for discussion. Though significantly more expensive, it gives all-weather, all-current capabilities. Anything less, and you can meet the time, or meet the place, but rarely both. A week of sun, and/or wind and/or sailing regeneration battery charging would suffice. In 50 years, fuelcell/batteries will do the trick. In 100 years, Mr. Fusion will fit the bill.

For tomorrow, it seems Kevin Pemberton is onto something to meet this high energy need... perhaps a 35% electric, 65% ICE powered hybrid? Rarely is ICE needed, but when it is, you get 100% thrust for perhaps 4 hours, and 65% thrust indefinitely (fuel willing). Without the ICE, you get 100% thrust for only 5 to 30 minutes (depending on battery bank amp-hr capacity) before the batteries start eating themselves.

For today, James Lambert of www.abovethewaterline.net and www.toolboat.com and www.propulsionmarine.com has done several green marine repowers for clients near Santa Barbara, CA. He generally favors and sells the PolarPower DC generator. The www.polarpowerinc.com website is outdated (2006), but their product is cutting edge. eMotionHybrids in Florida at www.electricmarinepropulsion.org also favors the PolarPower system. As I understand it, PolarPower is basically an advanced alternator driven by an efficient diesel (or other fuels) ICE. You charge the batteries directly, at variable RPMs for efficiency, at possibly really high amperages; high enough to directly supply the electric propulsion motor(s) with lots of happy juice. PolarPower also favors adding an Air/Con compressor right to the ICE, for more efficient A/C if you use both A/C and the DC genset often.

For less pre-packaged solutions where you may spend months/years happily tinkering, 48volt high amperage traditional ICE alternators are commercially available. Slap one on some old Internal Combustion Engine... maybe even add a marine A/C&Refrigeration compressor, a hydraulic pump, a water-maker, an AC house generator, and any other high power consumption marine device you need continuously.

So Colin, the jury is still out on charging. The low hanging fruit, the easiest gains right now, are conservation. Insulation (bridge & fridge), LED lights, proper ventilation, slower motoring, etc. give the most/cheapest motoring miles. There is "current" advantage to learning to work with the environment, rather than stepping with an ever-larger footprint.

Let's play with Fire and Brimstone for a moment, K? This is horribly controversial, dealing with usually in-accessible religious sensibilities and mindsets. If theological questions bother you, please don't read the rest of this paragraph. Whatever your spiritual perspective, please consider the Judeo-Christian term "dominion". Does it mean to personally dominate, to do whatever you want (the current western cultural definition), or is there a more deferential original meaning that values biodiversity and ecological complexity, that harkens to the etymological roots of "domicile" in learning to be at home with your environment, to steward the abundance rather than greedily snarfle all the goodies for yourself. There is quite a bit of theological discussion on this topic. If interested, Google "dominion biblical meaning", talk with your own religious leaders, or check out: http://eapi.admu.edu.ph/eapr00/jojo.htm for a discussion of context with the Hebrew word, "kabash" and the Aramic term "radu", the original words that were later translated as "dominion". Though this "dominion" discussion may seem out of place, we are all motivated by deep-seated cultural biases, pro and con. By asking yourself where you stand, you can more accurately choose your own combination of horsepower and grace that more perfectly fits your specific needs.

Respectfully (believe it or not),
Mark Stafford (which at the end of high school I discovered was my real name)

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Pemberton <the_right_lane@...> wrote:
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> Are you wanting to running off the generator or just charging? You will need a 10KW generator for the power you are talking about. What this means is while you are topping off your batteries you will be wasting fuel. Looking at Hybrids the idea is ICE sized for cruising speed not full speed, and filling in high power requirements with stored energy, or more likely the other way around. Consider using Honda and Toyota for a case study in there use of power sources.
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> I am working on a lower power, silent power source that should be idea in our application, but am not ready to unvale the product yet. It will be scalable in both voltage and power output. I don't see configuring anything close to 200 amps though.
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> Kevin
> http://simplyrv.imnugget.com
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> For RV information
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> --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Arby bernt <arbybernt@...> wrote:
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> From: Arby bernt <arbybernt@...>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Charging Question
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 12:13 AM
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> Leese-Neville makes a nice series of alternators. I saw a 24v, 100a unit paired with a Lombardini one lung 5hp diesel in a 35' sailboat years ago.
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> Arby
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> ____________ _________ _________ __
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> From: colingirvan <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>
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> To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
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> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 12:51:07 PM
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> Subject: [Electric Boats] Charging Question
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> Hi to all, I tried sending this message earlier but it seems to have got lost (or more likely I screwed up). I'm another new member and also interested in the over 30' solutions. One question I have for the more knowledgable out there is how you propose charging your batteries away from the grid. In this size range it seems ever more important to have some sort of generator aboard. In previous posts people have recommended connecting a PM motor to a small diesel, which is essentially what I would like to do. How would you go about regulating this set up when charging batteries, is there an off the shelf device that will handle the voltage and amps (I'm looking at 48 or 72v and up to 200amps)?. Could the charging be controlled manually by adjusting output voltage and amps (with engine revs and a controller?) .
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> Anyway thanks for any help you can provide.
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> Colin.
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