Mike aboard Bianka this summer had a controller issue. His setup is not
brushless.
Both brushed and brushless motors are going to have some kind of
controller.
Yes, brushed motors *can* operate right off of battery voltage. But
with no motor control.
Let's assume that I had a brushed setup and my controller blew while I
was far from my home port, but still not far from civilization.
No motor control on a battery-connected brushed motor means just that.
You've got to have big knife-switches reminiscent of Frankenstein's lab.
You may be using your key-switch to pulse your motor on and off.
You have no reverse. So coming in to that anchorage will be
interesting.
Personally, I would rather sail in.
A dead brushed controller would still prevent me from leaving my slip.
A massive network of series/parallel contactors for speed control and
reverse would make for a fairly complex throttle setup. Custom work to
be sure.
Not so simple. It would actually be cheaper in the end to carry a spare
controller.
For my brushless setup, my motor is the ME0913. About $850.
My controller is the Sevcon Gen4 275A (small) model. Probably about the
same price.
I am less concerned with the unit price as I am in the immediate
availability.
If I can just order a replacement controller from any forklift shop (or
have my vendor drop-ship it to me) and get my vendor to update the
firmware on it once I install it in my boat, everything is great.
If I have to wait for my vendor to order a controller, program it and
then ship it to me, that is lost time. On my 6-month sailing season, so
lost time means wasted money.
My opinion is worth what you've paid for it.
/Jason
On 2016-10-24 13:34, 'PISQUE1969 .' surv69@gmail.com [electricboats]
wrote:
> can't things be cobbled together with a permanent magnet motor and
> forget the programmed controller?
>
> It seems that most all the problems with the brushless motors is
> controller issues.
>
> Give me pure simplicity ... even at the cost of some range ...
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:51 AM, GNHBus@aol.com [electricboats]
> <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Good for You Jason, you "hit the Nail on the Head" .
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason Taylor jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca [electricboats]
>> <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
>> To: electricboats <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2016 10:08 am
>> Subject: [Electric Boats] When things fail away from home - the need
>> for remote CANbus support.
>>
>> This post turned out longer than I had initially thought. It's
>> basically just some musings on the reliability of electric
>> propulsion
>> systems and how to keep going when "something fails". Mike on Bianca
>>
>> recently lost a season due to issues with a battery and his
>> controller.
>> Some (not electric) boats at my yacht club recently lost valuable
>> sailing time due to engine issues. I had an issue with water finding
>>
>> its was to my battery. I have even had a minor issue with the
>> key-start
>> (water again). My issues were quickly and easily resolved, but it
>> got
>> me thinking...
>>
>> One of the features which drew me towards electric was the ease with
>>
>> which individual components can be replaced compared to diesel. But
>> judging from some recent component failures I have 1st and 2nd-hand
>> experience of, I don't think that's quite the case. Both
>> technologies
>> are fraught with expensive, hard to find parts, requiring sourcing
>> from
>> the vendor. I still wouldn't go back to diesel, but these past
>> couple
>> of years have opened my eyes somewhat.
>>
>> How would you compare season-debilitating problems you have suffered
>> (or
>> could suffer) to a diesel boat? We had two boats at our club have
>> engine troubles mid-season. One actually had to replace his engine
>> (he
>> followed his mechanic's advice and did not go electric) and the
>> other
>> had a fuel pump fail towards the end of the season. Yes, around
>> these
>> partrs, end of October is pretty much end of the sailing season. It
>> makes me sad, but it just means boating has a more project and
>> maintenance oriented aspect.
>>
>> The boat that replaced their engine was out for about 9 weeks (mid
>> July
>> to end of September).
>> The boat with the failed fuel pump was out for about a month.
>> Both boats suffered delays from parts and mechanic availability.
>>
>> I have been thinking about this a lot as regards my boat's electric
>> propulsion setup. What are the parts that could really play havoc my
>>
>> season? How could I get back on the water as quickly as possible?
>> Personally, I am not about to stow a spare motor, controller,
>> charger,
>> and battery for those "just in case" situations. That's a lot of
>> capital tied up in contingency. But how can I salvage a holiday (or
>> even the entire season) if any one of those fail?
>>
>> Battery:
>> I think the most difficult part to replace is a Lithium cell.
>> Because
>> they have a shelf-life, and lithium prices have fluctuated recently,
>>
>> nobody stocks them which means that any replacement would have to
>> come
>> directly from China. I can probably get around this issue by have a
>> house-bank made up of 4 identical cells. Should a propulsion bank
>> cell
>> fail, I could scavenge from the house bank and short-term replace
>> the
>> house bank with a wet-lead deep cycle from Sams or Costco.
>>
>> Motor & Controller:
>> Since the motor is brushless, it relies on the controller to
>> operate.
>> Being brushless, there is very little that can go wrong with the
>> motor
>> itself. No contacts to wear out or short. So long as it isn't given
>> an
>> over-current situation and is kept reasonably cool, it should
>> outlast
>> most of the boat. To get the most out of the motor, the controller
>> needs to know everything about the motor and how it should be used.
>> I
>> can't just swap out a dead controller for another one. Not even a
>> same
>> make/model one. It needs to have the vendor-supplied motor profile
>> installed. This makes me reliant on my vendor exclusively for
>> controller issues. I either find a way for the vendor to do remote
>> config support on a new controller or I ship it to him and wait. I
>> am
>> convinced that a RaspberryPi (tiny, low-power computer) with a
>> CANbus
>> controller would be perfect for a vendor to do onsite support of the
>>
>> motor controller from their location. If anything, they could
>> overnight-express ship a module to the customer and guide them in
>> connecting it and then upload the new firmware remotely. It's a
>> matter
>> of time before all the vendors do this, or just build it into the
>> installed system directly for telemetry.
>>
>> Charger:
>> The charger is pretty much a non-issue. My charger has profiles for
>> lithium packs from 8 to 18 cells. My pack is 16 cells. So if I lose
>> a
>> cell or two, I can still charge the pack properly. However, with my
>> Battery Management System in place, any plain old constant current /
>>
>> constant voltage power supply would work just fine, so long as the
>> BMS
>> can control it, which it can via a solid state relay on the
>> charger's AC
>> supply.
>>
>> So, my critical components are a 100ah lithium cell and a programmed
>>
>> motor controller. Everything else is just hardware that can be
>> cobbled
>> together from any electronic parts store or West Marine. Since spare
>>
>> cells can be carried on board by way of a small house bank, that
>> leaves
>> just the controller and its programming as the critical path.
>>
>> In closing, as a quick plea to all the vendors out there, any chance
>> we
>> can home on on this remote CANbus management idea? It really would
>> be a
>> boon to the e-boating industry as a whole if one vendor can provide
>> hardware for another vendor's system, and then allow the individual
>> vendors to support their customers remotely. The Raspberry Pi with a
>>
>> CAN controller would also allow for system telemetry to be sent to
>> the
>> vendor for ongoing profiling and customer support. This is also
>> something that is available for larger diesels and is certainly
>> going to
>> be an option for new installs on smaller ones as well. A massive
>> data
>> set of engine performance would also do wonders for our field.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> /Jason
>> --
--
Jason Taylor
--
S/V Fugu
1978 Beneteau First 30
Electroprop PM-20
Posted by: Jason Taylor <jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca>
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