Re: [Electric Boats] Re: 48v diesel telecommunications standby gen?

OK, I agree, efficiency of peltiers are lousy. They take many machine
hours to produce compared to solar panels so the cost is higher. If
however you are on a boat and your solar panel is subject to shaded
areas poly panels are your best option if efficiency is important to
you. Poly panels are the cheapest panel on the market and many more sq
inches are required to do the same job as crystalline panels do. Why?
the big "E" word we are talking about. Why are the low efficiency
panels a better choice on a boat? Because they keep charging even when
partly shaded. The most productive PV panels become an anchor when even
partly shaded. If you are collecting heat rather than moving electrons
your loss is minimal. Loss= sq. area shaded.

My seebeck generator is only 1.5 inches thick, 1ft square, has plumbed
heat sinks to transfer heat using liquid. With a simple set of valves to
the collector I utilize Night sky effect as well as the sun to increase
temp difference here in the desert without over heating the junction.

Because I use wood gas to cook with, the heat is a by-product from the
gas generator. My plan is to increase the solar collector, and switch to
methane gas to cook with. It is at that time I will understand fully the
size of the panel I will need to keep my seebeck generator running 24-7.

I am not bias. I have a couple of nice size solar PV panels. I have two
wind generators made from salvaged parts from 2000i generators. The home
brew MPPT wind generator controller is designed to keep the generator
spinning at optimum RPM. You see I had one of my wind generators go open
circuit on me and discovered 240v with my cheap multi meter. To make a
point, the diode bridge I am using is salvaged from a 12v commercial
truck alternator and even with the 240v output it didn't blow any diodes
( what is the rating on those things anyhow?). I distil my drinking
water using a home brew solar still. My boat today is a canoe with an
electric paddle. I am looking into carbon fiber lead acid batteries to
lower battery replacement costs in the future. My swamp cooler will be
replaced as soon as I can with a cooling tower/ solar chimney, as soon
as the chicks can take care of themselves.

Today I lurk more than participate on this and many other related lists,
to get news about new or highlighted developments. My Catalina 30 is
history, but it's conversion is the reason I found this list. I hope you
folks understand that sometimes I just must offer my ideas. More
important. If I do voice an idea it is likely I felt the topic needed
another option.

Honest guys, I almost abandon the seebeck idea myself but I am glad I
didn't I have to many sources for heat to waste it.

Kevin Pemberton

On 09/21/2012 12:03 PM, Julian Webb wrote:
> - but isn't the efficiency of peltiers lousy?
> - i'd heard the $/W was way worse than most anything else e.g. solar panels
> - i appreciate the sun doesn't shine all the time but then again your generator shouldn't be running too much either, and the heat generated by
> us 'meat puppets' etc below decks takes more energy to harvest (fans etc)
> than a peltier set up would return?
>
>
> On 18 September 2012 05:53, Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> It might be time to pipe in.
>>
>> If I were to use a transportation alternator I would likely use a
>> commercial truck alternator. They are built to be abused. Second thing is
>> the diodes used in this type or automotive alternators will withstand over
>> 100v. For this reason I would likely change the regulator to run at the 48v
>> charge voltage.
>>
>> If I were to consider using a 3ph alternator I would consider downloading
>> a PDF from the national renewable resource labs called investigation of
>> self excited induction generators or something like that. I would carry it
>> a little further and parallel the windings of the induction motor to half,
>> or more, the output voltage.
>>
>> as the air cooled diesel goes. I bought a 4000w genset on Amazon a few
>> years back. The injector pump was jammed because it was assembled wrong. I
>> fixed it by assembling it the way it should have been. Because of the
>> problem, I had to replace the pump withing a year. No one was there to
>> return the generator to. Being one cylinder it is loud, vibrates a bunch,
>> and has never burned clean. Heat must be removed from below deck when air
>> cooling as well. The advantage of water cooling is recovery of heat in the
>> form of hot water.
>>
>> If you would like quiet. I might suggest Peltier junctions. TE inc. in
>> Michigan has Engineering papers to help design the system. I have built a
>> 12v system and it cost me 250 US 150 of that was the junctions used two
>> years ago. Because cooling water is available and the system works in heat
>> variations as well as moving that heat. A system on a boat would be a no
>> brainer. The heat can come from more than one source. Solar is a good
>> choice because a meter squared of collector area in clear skys is good for
>> 1000w of heat. When at rest solar can top the batteries. When in motion any
>> heat source will do including a stove top burner. The system could be
>> referred to as a solid state heat engine.
>>
>> The system requires that energy only travels in one direction so diodes
>> are needed.
>>
>> Have fun and happy sailing.
>>
>> Kevin Pemberton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/15/2012 11:42 AM, Robert Lemke wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Good thread. I am considering using a new 10 hp air cooled diesel on
>> ebay for $619 and (4) automotive alternators to charge a 48 volt bank.
>> Entire set up should be only $1K and produce just shy of 7kw of charging.
>>
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-10HP-SMALL-DIESEL-ENGINE-WITH-ELECTRIC-START-10-HP-/170672262621?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bcdc0ddd
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 9/15/12, hardy71uk <dottir@hotmail.com> <dottir@hotmail.com>*wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: hardy71uk <dottir@hotmail.com> <dottir@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: 48v diesel telecommunications standby gen?
>> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Saturday, September 15, 2012, 10:27 AM
>>
>> I'm thinking of using a 3phase generator . Use three transformers to bring
>> the voltage down to the required value . Make the output DC via a 3phase
>> rectifier. Should make a simple charger.
>>
>> Chris S
>> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=electricboats@yahoogroups.com>,
>> Michael Mccomb <mccomb.michael@...> <mccomb.michael@...> wrote:
>>> other than the Panda stuff which is VERY expensive has anyone come
>> across a 48v dc diesel charging system.... i'd rather use a sort of RAID
>> approach with a much less expensive diesel/PMA system but am pushing the
>> limits of my understanding to devise such a system.... seemingly both
>> diesel engines AND permanent magnet alternators
>> of sufficient power/capacity can each be had for under $1k... some
>> electronics is undoubtedly needed but adding this would still bring a
>> system in perhaps 10k under the Panda price
>>> one can stumble across all sorts of reference to 48v diesel units used
>> for telecommunications systems but i have had great trouble actually
>> tracking such a unit down
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>



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