T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: 12V Accessories (Refrigeration)

Friday, October 19, 2012

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: 12V Accessories (Refrigeration)

Hey, more power to you if it works and I'm sure it does.

I'm just saying, you'll get far more refrigeration effect per Watt with vapor compression than any other approach. I have an off the shelf, 11 cu. ft. refrigerator freezer on the Arc that I bought for $300 and I love it. It will most likely run for the next 10 years without missing a beat and I'll throw it away and buy a new one. There is no way I could produce that luxury with either absorbtion or Petier technology for anywhere near that cost or efficiecncy.

That's all I'm saying.

From: John Francis <surv69@gmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: 12V Accessories (Refrigeration)

The number one reason I like the Peltier is simplicity and cost.

Even if I went the route of an extremely efficient compressor refirgerator, I would keep the option of the Peltier unit as a backup.

I have no interest in having ice, ice cream or long-frozen meats.

On the Peltier . . . I run it 24/7 now(in dock), but in the past I always ran it a few hours here and there . . . at night and early morning. A total of about 8 hours a day and it served me well during the summer(Ohio).

AND . . . I can have ALL THE REPAIR PARTS hidden in the recesses of my boat for less than $30, just in case. TRY THAT WITH A COMPRESSOR UNIT!

John Francis

Newport 28

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:19 AM, happycamperx64 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Craig,

You've probably thought of this before, but I'm thinking that since one of the peltier's big issues is how to dissipate the waste heat, and since a boat is sitting in water, that maybe a peltier's hot plate could be formed into the external hull of a boat. This might be too scary for an ocean going sailboat, but for a small lake and river boat it might be a way to get the efficiency up while keeping the small size and the low maintenance.

Either way, I applaud your big fridge.

John

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Craig Carmichael <craig@...> wrote:
>
> That's quite interesting. The internet is sure great for finding out
> about new things you've never heard of before!
>
> I guess it's my electronics background (and dislike of
> compressor/fridge noise) that lead me instead to the Peltier idea. I
> did realize I was going for simplicity at the cost of operating
> efficiency. It would be a considerable learning curve for me to do a
> compressor based system unless they're made as ready to install
> units. Basically, I wouldn't have taken the project on. (For
> efficiency I'd like to try the magnetic refrigeration idea, because
> it's pretty much unexplored and potentially pretty quiet.)
>
> Let's see, to make my Peltier cooling unit "from scratch" (without
> all the detours I took doing a first prototype) would have cost...
> 15 - Peltier device
> 5 - fan
> 10 - Al to make heatsink
> 10 - Al for inner chest
> --
> Well, allowing for whatever, call it 50-75$ or so?
>
> So... any idea what a small 12v compressor based cooling (or heating)
> unit might cost to put together? I looked for compressor based
> ductless heat pumps recently, and under "ordering" they all (large or
> small) link to "find an installer near you", which seems discouraging
> for a DIYer.
>
> Craig
>
> =====
>
> >In regards to refrigeration, lots of people have made their own.
> >There are some very efficient DC compressors out there to employ in
> >this. 12 to 24 volt BLDC compressors are available that can be used
> >in just about any size refrigerator/ freezer. Commercially available
> >ones are usually around 14 cubic feet. These refrigerators will run
> >24/7/365 off of any 150 watt solar panel and matching battery.
> >Current consumption at 12 volts is only around 2.4 amps at full load.
> >In a well insulated enclosure these would be much more efficient
> >than a junction device. And they are available for alternative/HC
> >refrigerants as well.
> >More info below,
> >
> ><http://www.danfoss.com/Products/Categories/Group/RA/Compressors/Direct-Current-Compressors/b44e7573-473b-4dba-90c2-431ffccf0b9c.html>http://www.danfoss.com/Products/Categories/Group/RA/Compressors/Direct-Current-Compressors/b44e7573-473b-4dba-90c2-431ffccf0b9c.html
> >
> ><http://www.masterflux.com/products/cascade/>http://www.masterflux.com/products/cascade/
> >
> >--- In
> ><mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.com,

> >Craig Carmichael <craig@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thanks for the responses!
> >>
> >SNIP
> >I'm really in this to create renewable energy things myself*,
> >
> >SNIP
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Craig
> >>
> >> * As an example of how one thing can lead to others... people told me
> >> that Peltier elements were too inefficient for anything more than a
> >> small camping cooler -- not worth thinking about for a fridge. If I'd
> >> taken that advise, nothing would have been achieved. But here's three
> >> things that have arisen from the experiment:
> >>
> >> -- I'm the only person I know who has ever made a home made fridge.
> >> It does use 1/2 as much electricity for only 1/3 the cubic space of
> >> my regular fridge in spite of 3" of foam insulation - but it works
> >> and it's 12 volts. And with a freezing/melting ice chest to store and
> >> release coldness, plus when I've done the "smart control", it'll run
> >> mainly in the day when the solar panels are making the electricity.
> >> If I hadn't explored it, the ideas for making it practical and for
> >> reducing battery energy storage requirements to run a fridge wouldn't
> >> have come to light.
> >
> >
>

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