I will keep working on it, and keep everyone posted. Any other takers with good info please chip in!
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Steamboat Willie <stmbtwle@...> wrote:
>
> To be honest I think it could be made to work, but you're going to need a REALLY BIG prop to be able to develop the thrust required to push you up wind against the turbine drag. After all, consider a sail as a big "turbine blade" and the centerboard/keel as a big "propeller blade". In THEORY it'll work. In practice, I dunno.Â
>
> Willie
>
> --- On Wed, 11/10/10, Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@...>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Station keeping Azipod -- was Re: Multidirectional Docking Electric Motors
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 11:21 AM
>
>
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> Â
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> Not buying it!
>
>
>
> I have had my anchored boat forced to port when my port mounted turbine
> kicked in.
>
>
>
> You may point higher into the wind with a turbine connected to a screw
> but you will never point into the wind and make headway. One of the
> discussions on this list many a time, is what kind of power will be
> required to overcome the windage of our boats. You are talking about
> adding wind catchers to your boat design.
>
>
>
> Â I do like the idea of help to keep the boat in place when serious
> weather comes along, so even if you are feeding the diesel to have a
> fighting chance that is a good option.
>
>
>
> A wise sailor removes the rigging when he is facing a hurricane, and
> moves his boat where wind is least likely... The reason? Even the wind
> against the standing rigging can mean disaster as wind has it's way
> with the boat. Put another way, "For every action there is an equal
> and opposite reaction." I have experienced this many times on the
> boat. I have dragged anchor many a time because I wasn't in good
> holding ground, and the wind had it's way with me. Had I not had that
> extra wind drag called a wind turbine, I may have been able to hold my
> position.
>
>
>
> Many of the old water pump turbines like those shown on that site lost
> their lives in heavy blows because they were not turned out of the
> wind. What will you do with a vertical with so many blades in a heavy
> blow? All things made by man are compromise, and wind turbines are no
> different.
>
> Â
>
> I downloaded their "science behind" brochure. I found magnetic bearings
> that were not really magnetic bearings. All magnetic bearings I have
> seen required a controller to do their job. Cogging only quiets the
> generator down at startup, and allows lower speed startups, but no
> other advantage I can see.
>
>
>
> Summary:
>
>
>
> If every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Then 10 lbs of
> thrust against the hull in the form of wind will have to be overcome
> with 10 lbs of thrust against the hull from the other direction.Â
> Because we are using thrusters or other drive means to do this, we must
> consider the losses involved with the drive. Typically we are looking
> to at best 60% of what goes into the drive making it to moving the
> boat. We must now consider losses in battery charge and discharge.Â
> This is still much better than with an ICE but must be considered. We
> must then consider the efficiency of the generator system. The reason
> that a motor must be turned above the speed that it runs at a set
> voltage to produce power of that set voltage, is losses in the
> equipment. Now 100% of the power in the wind is not converted to
> motion in the turbine, and 100% of the power in the motion of the
> turbine is not converted in the generator to electricity. We must now
> consider the diode loss to convert the power from the AC generator to
> DC.
>
>
>
> My guess is 80 to 90% of the power needed to keep the boat stationary
> will have to come from an ICE driven generator and I think that is
> conservative. I found it difficult to keep my autopilot running on
> what my wind generator would produce, and that was pretty much passive
> control, go figure.
>
>
>
> Sorry if this is a little harsh, but I would not want you to spend
> everything you have to make a system that will not work, because nature
> is even more harsh than I. We just must live within the laws of nature,
> no choice.
>
>
>
> Kevin Pemberton
>
>
>
> On 11/09/2010 08:12 PM, Steamboat Willie wrote:
> Â
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>
> I can only wonder what one of those would do on the
> racing circuit!!!
>
>
>
> For the rest of us, rags are probably cheaper.
>
>
>
> Willie
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 11/9/10, Kerry Thomas <kjthomas@...>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Kerry Thomas <kjthomas@...>
>
> Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Station keeping Azipod -- was Re:
> Multidirectional Docking Electric Motors
>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 9:17 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
> Hi
> Â
> There was a catamaran here some years
> ago. Whangarei NZ. With a propeller turbine directly coupled to the
> prop that could go to windward.
> Also a similar setup in wooden boat
> magazine, on a monohull.
> Â
>
>
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steamboat
> Willie
>
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 November 2010 2:44 p.m.
>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Station keeping Azipod
> -- was Re: Multidirectional Docking Electric Motors
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
> Bear in mind that
> wind turbines have a LOT of wind resistance (you don't get the power
> for free) and it will take more power to hold the vessel in position
> with them running. But there has been an idea kicking around for the
> past 20-30 years, and that's to have a wind turbine connected to a
> propeller and drive a boat DIRECTLY UPWIND... You might be the first!!!
>
>
>
> Willie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 11/9/10, Galstaf <richard@...>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Galstaf <richard@...>
>
> Subject: [Electric Boats] Station keeping Azipod -- was Re:
> Multidirectional Docking Electric Motors
>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 10:32 AM
>
> Â
>
> To clarify: I am indeed seeking an anchorless
> solution, and this is going to be a *non sailing craft* with 15-20kW of
> vertical wind turbines. More turbines may be added later.. they are not
> nearly as large or heavy as I had originally anticipated.
>
> The Azipod does pretty much what I am looking for; I just wasn't aware
> of the name. Ideally I would like that to be the principle drive for
> the boat also.
>
> Can anyone recommend a manufacturer for boats in the 50' (25000 pounds)
> range?
>
> Is anyone using anything like this?
>
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>
> --
> Ubuntu10.04, Acer AspireOne, Virgin Mobile 3G Broadband2go.
> Doesn't get any better than this!
>
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