As a lurker, I have to say I have enjoyed this thread. There is nothing like a true debate to allow me to see different viewpoints. There is validity to both sides (as is often the case). I am a technologist by training and passion. Historically many promising technologies to not meet the promise they made over time. This is for a variety of reasons (market manipulation by big companies, the technology was surpassed by another technology, the technology was over-hyped, etc.). Other technologies do come to fruition. Either way, their is a period of change, evaluation and improvement.
This thread, in some ways, is a distillation of many other threads over the past month and gets to the root question that many of us are here to answer: Do I EP or not?
As for me (I own a Legnos 30 sailboat bought in November with a Yanmar 15hp ICE), I know a couple of things:
1. I will not use a gas generator on my boat - for me, that is a safety issue - so no Honda 2000s for me.
2. I appreciate the energy storage and management simplicity of diesel. Having extensive offshore sailing experience (including being knocked down), I appreciate having the ability to motor in adverse conditions - again, having experienced stormy weather for hours on end, I see this as a safety issue and a current limitation of EP.
3. I love many aspects of EP - especially the elimination of most engine maintenance, the capability to generate power from multiple sources (solar, wind, hydro and genset) and the self sufficiency engendered in renewable resources (I am a Mainer and although I live in Miami, FL now I still cling to my Down East roots), and the idea of an almost silent propulsion mechanism.
Ultimately, at this point, it is not justifiable to replace my 30 year old, low compression diesel. With care, there is plenty of life in her -- at this point fuel costs for the past 6 months have been $35. The cost/benefit is just not there and I believe that is true for many sailors. Where EP does make sense, in my view, is when a new power plant is needed. But to make it work there is a lot of knowledge needed such as understanding of the "magic" of battery management. Diesel has a simplicity in management -- you are getting low on fuel, you fill her up; fuel consumption is easy to calculate; engine maintenance is relatively simple, etc. -- and has been practiced for decades, so the knowledge is wide spread. In short, people are comfortable with the concepts.
The value added by this forum is not the dogmatic postings, but the spirit of spreading knowledge and reducing ignorance on the subject. While once ready to jump on the EP bandwagon in a big way, I have since reconsidered and will take a more cautious approach. This reconsideration, to the chagrin of some, is the result of reading this forum (and other materials) and coming to an informed decision for myself. I will, however, keep an open mind and keep reading the posts here (and maybe even post on occasion). When the time is right for me, I will make the investment.
It would be an interesting exercise to develop a decision tree and cost/benefit analysis tool. Perhaps in my "free time" (whenever I find it).
Jake
S/V Amaru
Coral Gables, FL
Legnos Mystic 30
On Jun 9, 2011, at 12:31 PM, acsarfkram wrote:
I sure hope this thread dies soon.
To those that see EP as impractical for whatever reason (cost,range...) I do not see anything changing in a big way for the next year. There will likely be some battery improvements maybe even a "breakthrough", but I'm guessing they will not be inexpensive.
For the past three plus years EP has and is working sooo much better in every way than ICE did on my sailboat. If/when I get another boat I'll be looking for a sailboat with a dead or dieing engine and ripping it out to replace with EP just like I did with my current boat and the sailboat before that. If the perfect boat has a brand new diesel there will be a diesel for sale :-).
For me there is no comparison between ICE and EP, it's like two different activities.
So to those that have made up their minds that EP is impractical on a sailboat that's fine but what are you doing here?
Mark
Santa Cruz
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Lars D' Oyle" <ldoyle@...> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Don't get upset about what GHNBus posted about your comment.
>
> It's obvious they are not a sailor as they would not have made the comment about your "motor boat that just happens to have sails".
>
> It's also obvious they have never converted a sailboat from an ICE to EP as they would know that that path is not always an easy one.
>
> It's also quite obvious that they tend to post reply's without fully reading or understanding the post they are commenting on.
>
> Larry
>
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