Sunday, June 19, 2011

Re: [Electric Boats] re ICE versus Electric

 

Mike,

Great comments!  The versatility of electric propulsion is certainly an added plus! We all want and hope for, better battery technology.  But until we have it, the ability to use many different technologies along with electric propulsion are advantageous. I'm certainly not against diesel engines - they have their merits and are the only solution in some boats. However, I'm all for being more aware of how we use our resources. We only have this planet, and we all need to look at ways to do a better job of preserving and cleaning up what we have. EP is one way to do our part for those of us who find it a good solution.

Sally

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Mike <biankablog@verizon.net> wrote:
 

Trying to take the discussion down a notch which I think has a lot of interest for those who have converted and those who are lurking and are interested in electric propulsion. From what I hear it is not that electric propulsion does not work in sailboats it does. Just like it powers that ferry that got me interested in looking at an EP system in 2007. I think the concern is the storage and the limitations of the battery bank. I had some of those concerns as I thought about converting. I have addressed it to my satisfaction with the addition of the Honda 2000 generator along with solar and wind charging. Some do not like the Honda option. But, that's the beauty of an electric propulsion system i.e. options.
John B. wants to be able to pull into a dock and refill the battery bank in minutes. As new battery technologies evolve they can easily be intergrated in a boat with an EP system installed. That will probably happen at some point. But, some people like me it is about being as independent now as much as possible and not relying on fuel docks. That's why I have built my system to take advantage of the various charging options and by pass the docks as much as possible.  
Getting back to the economics of ICE vs EP. I'm a watch the pennies and let the dollars take care of themselves kind of guy. Every time you fire up a diesel it is money flowing out of your wallet. Just warming it up costs money because the fuel used will have to be replaced even though it is not propelling the boat which is the primary purpose of the motor. When some big sport fishing boat is at the fuel dock loading up with several hundred gallons of fuel and you are doing doughnuts motoring around waiting money is flowing out of your wallet. it's a little different with an EP system. When you are using an EP system it's energy you are using and you are only using it when you are actually propelling the boat for the most part. Unlike the diesel that energy can be replaced by a number of ways. Again it's the options when using EP. These include solar, wind. Yes they take a lot longer to replace the energy you used but, they replace the energy without you opening up your wallet. As those technologies advance they can be incorporated on board too. Plus they can be put to other uses when you don't need them to charge the EP bank. I'll give you an example.  I just launched my boat a few days ago. I don't have my generator on board and my wind generator is currently off the boat too. So I only have my solar panels working. I probably motored around for about 20 minutes or so moving to various docks to get the mast stepped and then moved out to an outer dock to put the sail on and finally out to the mooring. But, my battery bank has been fully charged just using solar. In fact as I write this my laptop is being powered by the my EP battery bank via 48 volt to 12 volt converter. Since I'm still prepping the boat I'm using the energy from those solar panels to power the laptop since I don't really need it to charge the battery bank anymore. Again an EP system provides more options if one wants to take advantage of them. Another thing you can do it gradually. I started off with the windgenerator and Honda and added solar a year later. You don't have to do it all at once.
 
Capt. Mike
 
 
 
--- On Fri, 6/10/11, John B. <jkbjr@verizon.net> wrote:

From: John B. <jkbjr@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] re ICE versus Electric
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, June 10, 2011, 4:20 AM


 
George:
 
I'm going to given this dead horse one more whack then let it rest in peace.
I never said that electric propulsion was not practical in a sailboat.  I never said that
electric propulsion was not financially justifiable in a sailboat.  There are
too many people posting here that have made the conversion and sing the
praises of electric propulsion in their boat.  What I did say was that CONVERTING
MY BOAT AT THIS TIME TO ELECTRIC PROPULSION DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
FOR ME either practically or financially.  You may disagree with my conclusion but
then again I don't have to justify my personal decision to you or anyone else.  
 
And yes, I took your comment the way it was intended.  You were condescending and
dismissive when you said it sounds like I have a motor boat that just happens to have
a sail onboard.  The post you made below and the two following it really make the point
of my original post.  To some any discussion of ICE vs. Electric becomes very personal
and any deviation from doctrine must be corrected.  It's like discussing Religion or
Politics at Thanksgiving Dinner.  It can break up a family or an internet forum.
 
Oh and one last thing, Alberto's post about the flow batteries is exactly the type of thing
I was talking about when I said I hope there is a breakthrough that creates the equivalent
of the Model T Ford.  Wouldn't it be amazing to pull up to a pump and in minutes top off
your battery instead of waiting hours for it to charge? 
 
John Bortner
O'Day 27 "Circe"
 
 

Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] re ICE versus Electric


John Bortner,
Your statement about not justifying the practicality of electric propulsion for a sailboat
created my response. It is very much a practicable method, more so than ICE, in many many cases.
I never said anything about your ability to sail, I wouldn't.

I understand many marina channels are busy, 3-4 knots max speed limits in most, so getting a sailboat
3-4 knots over a 0.5 - 3 nm distance seems very practicable with E-Prop.

I find this forum (and others) very valuable. I get motivated to comment when someone claims that E-Prop just isn't there yet.
Comments on these forums suggesting E-Prop is not justified, without knowing and experiencing both systems, deserves
to be recognized. I appreciate the feedback.

It would have been easier to comprehend if you had asked the Group, how to justify E-Prop given your traditional sailing experience.

Financially, well you'd have to do some calculations/comparisons, over time. How long do you plan to keep your boat.
What do you think your A-4 is worth? Do you know anyone that has E-Prop in your area?

If you're more comfortable with a 9hp outboard & your A-4, that's great, but I find it unjustified & impracticable and I guess that is what forums are for.
George


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