Sunday, September 5, 2010

Re: [Electric Boats] Anyone with technical experience with a Mars PMAC?

 

David:

Sounds like you've got a good plan. I took off a whole lot of spare stufF when I removed my diesel engine. Happily EP does not require a lot of spare parts and then they can be added as need and funds permit.
Here's how I added my spares. I first started out with one 48 volt Zivan charger. I noticed that in the final phase of charging that the voltage to the battery bank was hitting 62 volts during the pulse phase. I was not sure if this was normal operation or good for the batteries. The battery bank seemed to be getting charged ok. I could not get a straight answer from the US rep. But, I did not want to send it back and pay $130 to find out it was fine. I put that money toward buying a new Zivan. I plugged it in same thing up to 62 volts when pulsing. OK so now I have a spare charger which I also can use to propel the boat too. An important spare IMO and good to have. So then I learn from the electric boats group here about battery pack balancing. I finally decided to spring for a Dual Pro PS4 to make me feel comfortable that my pack will stay balanced. It's all about the batteries after all. This has worked real good for the way I cruise with my boat. I use the Zivan for bulk charging and powering long distances. Then use the Dual Pro for at the dock or after the bulk charge th finish of the charge along with my wind and solar charging. It all works for me as I can spend several weeks cruising knowing I have several backups for charging. But, if I was always going to be returning back to a dock after every trip I would do just as fine with a single Dual Pro or similar charger. The point is what you need for charging and what you need for spares depends on how you plan to use the boat and where along with your comfort level. Sounds like you've taken that into account in your plans.

Sent from on board BIANKA
http://biankablog.blogspot.com


From: David Goldsmith <suntreader@gmail.com>
Sender: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 00:43:08 -0400
To: <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Anyone with technical experience with a Mars PMAC?

 



On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

David,

That's a good answer. Performing your own risk assessment and taking things into account besides cost means that you're going into this with open eyes. From my persepective, each person needs to figure out which items can represent the biggest problem if they're missing but needed.

I can see a certain appeal in wanting a heavy displacement steel boat, with the welder and all manner of tools on board, materials, parts, and provisions to head out for an indefinite period of time, that's one extreme. The other end is just taking off with no skills or equipment in whatever floats. Most of us try to fit ourselves in the middle somewhere based on our means and experience. It doesn't take much additional expense/space/maintenance for me to forgo having something on board, I just don't want to be bothered when I'm trying to sail, but what is there needs to do its job and be reliable. Its not because I can't afford something or wouldn't enjoy the results, its that its just something I don't want to be bothered with.
 

Also, vacation cruising represents different issues than cruising in the remote corners of the globe. Carrying spare sails, motor, anchors or any other critical part in an location where a replacement could be months away seems more prudent. In trips between populated areas, fewer spare items would seem as crucial.

Yeah, I should have been more specific when I said 'cruising', I was really just trying to contrast it with 'daysailing', I'm not heading over the horizon just yet, more like a few weeks up and down the coast. I'd certainly love to get out and visit some places where no reasonable access to parts and materials are available, but those aren't the kinds of places I would take a 50 year old plastic boat. Actually, I might, but this restoration/refit isn't aiming that high, this is a coastal boat for now but I've got a running plan for what would need to be done to feel comfortable heading offshore.
 

I certainly didn't mean to cast any aspersions about your background or planning ability, but people can sometimes come across as penny wise and pound foolish.

You're absolutely right about that and sailing is a minefield of cost/benefit decisions. We're always being swayed by the marine press, advertisers, and the old coots who hang out in boat yards. Without a wealth of personal experience it can be difficult to make the right decisions on boat selection and outfitting. Its all a personal thing too and seeing all the different outcomes is part of the fun of sailing. The nice thing is almost all sailboats are pretty slow and they almost all come back, so there is a lot of variety out there in sailors and boats, its part of the fun.

In my own case, I've always had hank on sails and unless I find a deal I'll have them on this boat too. I sort of like changing headsails, I've usually got crew along, and it'll get me in the water just a bit sooner not to have to shell out another boat-buck ($1k) before launching. On the other hand I've got pressure water on board. Considering the cost of hand pumps these days its not any more expensive and I like being able to easily rinse off after swimming. In my experience, having enough water isn't as big of an issue as most initially believe.
 

The best of luck with your conversion, it's nice to hear about others that are converting old boats to electric.

My main cruising experience was owning a derelict 27 footer with some friends for a summer, we spent six months fixing her up and then cruised the Bahamas for a few months. The under powered engine quit pretty quickly, so instead of a few knots of engine speed we had none. No money for a new engine, no way to fix the old one without heading back to the States, so we just sailed, into marinas, on and off anchor, etc. Our record for slow under sail was less than a mile in 24 hours, but there were no other options. I loved every minute of it.

I'm really looking forward to the electric set-up. No noise, no diesel stink, no hot engine in the saloon, no leaky fuel tank, no filters or anything else. The big thing one gives up with electric over a diesel is range and speed; I never had those so won't be missing them!

 David


Fair winds,
Eric
1964 Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30 ketch - Serenity


Marina del Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, David Goldsmith <suntreader@...> wrote:
>
> I have no plans on pushing the specs any, its the right motor for the
> application as far as power goes. The battery bank will be 8 cart batteries,
> and the controller the Sevcon.
>
> I've certainly read the opinions about carrying what amounts to an entire
> spare drive train but there are limits to what a single owner can afford and
> what a single boat can carry. Do I carry a spare motor or a spare anchor?
> Enough standing rigging to replace everything or enough running rigging?
> Extra sails? Extra pumps? I know these aren't 'either/or' choices, but I'm
> not a survivalist sailor worrying about every possible problem. It all gets
> a little out of hand, so we have to make choices. From what I've read, no
> personal experience with electric propulsion, an electric set up should not
> require major spares (like motor or controller) in a vacation cruising
> context. On a 32' 1960s boat there isn't room or carrying capacity to load
> up on doubles of everything. I consider two full size anchors and rodes to
> be prudent but the third 'storm anchor' many carry isn't something I need
> enough to buy and store.The propeller is inside an aperture protected by a
> keel, in the unlikely event it is damaged I'll just have to find another way
> back to port.
>
> $500 is too much money for a thirty pound spare part that will more than
> likely never be needed and if it is, the situation could probably be solved
> in some other fashion (getting a tow, sailing in, using the dinghy as a yawl
> boat.) I don't cut corners when its important and I don't spend more than I
> have or can either.
>
> If no one has had problems with these motors failing then that's good enough
> for me to give it a go. If I have failures I'll switch to another motor
> until I find one reliable enough to fit the service. I suspect the Mars
> motor is going to be just fine.
>
> David
>


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