T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] scenario 34 foot chb fishing with 3hp 160 dc

Hi Orest,

Craig is right. modified sine wave will most likely power the
controller, maybe. With a modified sine wave the power level is there
but the voltage may not be.
A modified sine 115v inverter has a DC bus that should supply 156vdc if
you connected directly to that bus. The DC bus of a sine wave inverter
will be higher. With cheap inverters and controllers the losses are
pretty high. The reason is the diode used to re-direct the high voltage
surge that takes place when power is cut from a coil of any type. If you
must go this route choose an inverter that uses a FET for this surge
rather than a diode. The efficiencies are listed on most inverter
specs, many are as low as 85%.

Because the greatest losses are in the DC to DC conversion(the back end
of the unit) it matters little if the inverter is sine or modified sine
when looking for efficiencies, but the price tag because of higher part
count in the converter differences will show big time.

No matter what I did with this project, I would not compromise my
ability to start my primary drive to get home. The battery banks you
have at this time should stay untouched. Your aux drive should have it's
own battery bank. That being said consider a 48 volt to 220 inverter.
These units are mostly designed for off grid systems so efficiencies are
higher.

Kevin Pemberton

On 12/13/2012 11:58 AM, Craig Carmichael wrote:
> (Hi,
>
> Nice boat, Orest!
>
> Somewhere it got missed that this is a PM DC motor with brushes, 160 V.
>
> It's the controller that expects 240V AC, which it then simply
> rectifies, PWM's, and feeds to the motor. So modified sine wave is
> fine.
>
> --Craig the motor pusher
>
> PS: In fact, a simple 160 V DC to the controller might be fine too,
> but it seems to me that would be a rather dangerous voltage of
> batteries to put together, not to mention a rather impractical number
> of big lead-acids... unless it was done with lithiums, or NiMH D dry
> cells (for which I'm making 10 cell/12V battery holders on the 3D
> printer). Then you could have 10 AH at 160 V = 1600 WH. But that
> would be 90 $ per battery x 13 batteries. (NiMH amp-hours are worth
> double lead-acid amp-hours and they'll last far longer, and they
> don't need the careful treament of lithiums, but they're a
> considerable investment per capacity.)
>
> Which leads me to append a couple more subjects...
>
> PPS: My own 4.5KW ultra-efficient BLDC axial flux "Electric Hubcap"
> motors are 36 volts 120 amps instead of the other way around to
> ensure they won't electrocute anyone and don't need a mountain of
> batteries - but I can't make a motor plus a controller for 600 $. I'm
> just now developing a smaller model, about 2.5-3 KW, 24 V, 9" OD x
> 4.5".
>
> But it might not be ready for some while unless exceptional interest
> in them spurs me on. At the moment I'm trying to cast this cool
> 'airplane wing like' 12" plastic prop blade (& the hub) in aluminum.
> Then I'll probably use that to make a HDPE mold and cast a couple of
> props from tough PP-epoxy, and see how they perform on outboards. (I
> have high expectations, obviously.)
>
> PPPS: In case anyone is interested, I can presently supply 85 watt
> (solar panels for local pickup (Victoria, BC) for 200+HST $ from a
> distributor who has them 'on sale' to dealers. I don't want to try
> shipping them. (I'd take them up island as far as Comox next time I
> go for anyone who wants to wait.)
>
> 5 amps of charge current @ 17V output
> 47.3" x 21.8 x 1.4", 1200 x 553 x 36 mm
> 7.5 kg / 16.5 lbs.
>
> It seems to me to be a more convenient size for most vessels than the
> big 1m x 1.6m 240W panels.
>
> http://www.TurquoiseEnergy.com/ (needs serious updating)
> http://www.saers.com/recorder/craig/TurquoiseEnergyNews/ (monthly)
>
> -----
>
>> Interesting looking motor and controller! Are you going to use this
>> strictly as a parallel drive motor? It would supplement your
>> existing drive? If that is the plan you may be onto something. You
>> just need to clarify what type of current the unit requires, ie: 50
>> or 60 cycles and if it will run on a modified square wave vs full
>> sine wave. I'll see if I can google up some more info.
>> Is the plan to use this as a maneuvering / slow trolling motor on
>> the boat featured on your facebook page? If so, it would sure make
>> fishing a much more pleasurable experience without the noise and
>> fumes from the bigger dino drive.
>>
>>
>>
>> mattelderca
>>
>>
>> From: Orest Iwaszko <orestyko@hotmail.com>
>> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 1:50:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] scenario 34 foot chb fishing with 3hp 160 dc
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi great idea to show the equipment This is the only way I know
>> how to send a link so
>>
>> here is a link to my facebook page with pictures of the 160 volt DC
>> Leeson motor catalogue 108502-00
>> 108 inch pounds of torque 14 amps max .
>> 14 amps x 160 lolts = 2240 watts.
>>
>> link of motor and controller <http://www.faceboo
>> k.com/AlberniCharters>http://www.facebook.com/AlberniCharters rpm
>>
>> regards Or
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2012-12-12, at 7:26 PM, James Sizemore wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Oree, how about a link to the motor and controller you are planning
>>> on using? That might help the conversation along a bit.
>>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2012, at 8:43 PM, oree zko
>>> <<mailto:orestyko@hotmail.com>orestyko@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ty Matt the motor is 160 volt DC
>>>> Power from the generator will send 220 AC to the variable speed
>>>> forward and reverse controller which will also change the voltage
>>> >from 220AC to 12 volt DC , so what I don't have yet is a 220
>>>> inverter . Dies this sound better? Orest
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 2012-12-12, at 11:13 AM, "James Sizemore"
>>>> <<mailto:james@deny.org>james@deny.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I deffentally prefer my motor to run off 48volt DC then 220 AC,
>>>>> but mine is a primary drive and a serial hybrid. He wants a
>>>>> parallel hybrid so I think it is pretty much a wash either way
>>>>> for him.
>>>>>
>>>>> If he goes AC he has to buy an inverter to convert 12volt DC to
>>>>> AC, if he uses a DC motor/controller he will need a hefty high
>>>>> amp charger to convert his generators AC to 12 volt DC and he
>>>>> will have issues finding a 12 volt 3/5 hp dc controller.
>>>>>
>>>>> But we still don't even know if he is thinking of using a 3 phase
>>>>> or single phase AC motor/control so any comparisons are super
>>>>> speculative at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 12, 2012, at 6:25 AM, matt elder
>>>>> <<mailto:mattelderca@yahoo.ca>mattelderca@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Efficiencies mainly, and relying on a 3000 watt inverter to push
>>>>>> near 2500 watts as your primary propulsion. Drawing 200 or so
>>>>>> amps from the bats won't be good either.
>>>>>> It just seems all a bit off. I know, it's just a discussion.
>>>>>> Personally I think he'd be better off using the 600 bucks to
>>>>>> purchase a golf cart and
>>>>>> use it's components (speed controller, reversing contactor,
>>>>>> motor, etc.) to build a drive. Rewire the house batteries to 36
>>>>>> volt and use a converter to feed the house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just think, and it's my personal opinion, that moving the
>>>>>> voltages up is a big waste of energy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mattelderca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: James Sizemore <<mailto:james@deny.org>james@deny.org>
>>>>>> To:
>>>>>> "<mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.com"
>>>>>> <<mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>> "<mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.com"
>>>>>> <<mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.co
>>>>>> m>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:03:59 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] scenario 34 foot chb fishing with 3hp 160 dc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The math is pretty simple hp to watts is 1:746 so 3hp = 2238
>>>>>> watts. So me telling him 3kw already had some fluff built in.
>>>>>> Do i have enough fluff depends on the motor controller. But most
>>>>>> inverters can surge past their max pretty far for a second or
>>>>>> two. So I think 3kw is a good fit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now for ohms law 2238 / 12 = 186 amp draw from his battery at
>>>>>> max speed. So he said he had 6 golf cart batteries so assuming
>>>>>> he has around a 200 AH pack. So he should get an hour out of
>>>>>> it. If he wanted to take his house bank to empty and travel at
>>>>>> full electric speed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple of hours at half throttle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What math did you have an issue with?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 2:20 PM, matt elder
>>>>>> <<mailto:mattelderca@yahoo.ca>mattelderca@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think some of the math may be way off here.
>>>>>>> 3 HP is more like 6000 watts of inverter power.
>>>>>>> I doubt a 3000 watt inverter will run this motor, even if it
>>>>>>> did, the current it would draw at 12 volts is near 250 amps.
>>>>>>> Then you will need to know if this controller will run on a
>>>>>>> modified square wave as most cheap inverters put out.
>>>>>>> You may need a full sinewave inverter which will cost you. And
>>>>>>> then you may need to see if it will run at 50 or 60 cycles.
>>>>>>> Just a few thoughts,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mattelderca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: James Sizemore <<mailto:james@deny.org>james@deny.org>
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>> "<mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.com"
>>>>>>> <<mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com>electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 1:56:25 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] scenario 34 foot chb fishing with
>>>>>>> 3hp 160 dc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The inverter is what will pull from the batteries and 12 volt
>>>>>>> to 220 volt single phase inverters are quite common in Europe,
>>>>>>> you never said what phase the motor kit your looking at needed,
>>>>>>> if it needs a 2 phase inverter those are less common and less
>>>>>>> cheap, but still exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 12:47 PM, Orest Iwaszko
>>>>>>> <<mailto:orestyko@hotmail.com>orestyko@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the response James , This deal comes with a
>>>>>>>> variable speed controller. Yes Ill have to find a 220 volt
>>>>>>>> 3000 watt inverter. Does 160 volt 3 hp sound doable
>>>>>>>> eventually from batteries ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2012-12-11, at 10:37 AM, James Sizemore wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You will need a 3kw inverter. And the cheaper induction
>>>>>>>>> motors are normally on/off full speed so it might be hard to
>>>>>>>>> use in close quarters, unless you drop some euro's on a
>>>>>>>>> variable speed controller. But sound like an interesting
>>>>>>>>> project, for only a thousand or so expense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2012, at 12:03 AM, Orest Iwaszko
>>>>>>>>> <<mailto:orestyko@hotmail.com>orestyko@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Im back , Been drooling in my dreams about the magic you are
>>>>>>>>>> creating . Ive come across a 3 hp 160 volt dc motor with a
>>>>>>>>>> controller for $ 600. The controller needs 220 volts. input.
>>>>>>>>>> My boat is 34 feet and I only want to use this system for up
>>>>>>>>>> to 3mph tops. Mostly 2.5 mph or less.
>>>>>>>>>> My boat has a Northern Lights 5 kw genset with both 110 and
>>>>>>>>>> 220. So Im able to run off the gernerator. and would aquire
>>>>>>>>>> a 220 volt inverter.
>>>>>>>>>> The dc motor will turn my 1.5 inch shaft with 20 inch prop
>>>>>>>>>> at around 400 rpm for fishing
>>>>>>>>>> dc motor spins up to 1750 so at 900 rpm motor with a 3 /1
>>>>>>>>>> reduction my shaft should turn 300 rpm .
>>>>>>>>>> Im thinking to spin the shaft with a pully belt system .
>>>>>>>>>> I have 6 golf cart batteries used at 12 volts for the house
>>>>>>>>>> system and for this project and would like to add solar
>>>>>>>>>> panels and wind generator eventually .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is this perusable in your opinion.
>>>>>>>>>> Orest 34 foot CHB

--
Committing murder in exchange for lifestyle
makes you a "thug" not a "Rights Activist"