T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: ME0913 vs 180ibl? (reply to Jim)

I definitely DO agree and understand what you are saying. Being able to run away is not my only precaution but just one of many and the only one the propulsion system really has to deal with. I spent a lot of time in hurricane territory and think in terms of days rather than hours. Always better to move early rather than late.

At the moment I am trying to determine whether I would be more comfortable modifying a faster boat (catamaran) or a sort of mini-battleship that most consider slow and over built. Not completely decided and it sort of depends on what I can get my hands on presently. The over built boat seems to be winning out both in terms of my comfort level AND in terms of availability.

From: Mike <biankablog@verizon.net>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: ME0913 vs 180ibl? (reply to Jim)

Mike:

I think you are putting too much faith in a boats ability to run away from trouble. Does not matter if it's electric or ICE propulsion. Your boat needs to be able to have the ability to ride things out. Just depending on electrical or mechanical propulsion to get away IMO is a false sense of security.

http://biankablog.blogspot.com/2011/08/squall-rules-anatomy-of-sinking.html

Your are never going to out run a storm coming across the water at 30 knots and you will waste a lot of energy trying:

During my first year of electric propulsion I was 25 miles from my destination with a nasty thunderstorm line between my boat and the harbor. I was hoping that they would have move on by the time I reached the area. They didn't. As the rumbles of thunder and flashes of lightning got closer and wind started to pick up. I dropped sail and turned on the electric propulsion to plow into the waves on the most comfortable course. There was lot's of wind, lightning, rain and hail. But, my crew and I could converse easily down below because the electric motor was so quiet. We could actually hear the rumbles of thunder moving away from the boat. Forty five minutes later the storms had past by. I never had to turn on my generator just used electric propulsion to get through the storm. I got through the bad weather faster and used less energy than if I had tried to avoid the storm. Anyway just something you might want to consider before you put a lot of $$$ into a more complex electric propulsion system

Capt. Mike

http://biankablog.blogspot.com

--- On Wed, 9/21/11, Michael Mccomb <mccomb.michael@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michael Mccomb <mccomb.michael@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: ME0913 vs 180ibl? (reply to Jim)
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 9:01 PM

I'd be really happy if they simply took a 360ibl apart and then reassembled it on camera. Perhaps they are a bit secretive concerning their newest baby?

For the "runaway from trouble" ability in a normally battery powered boat one just needs to be able to have a gen/charger large enough to keep the motors spinning at 70% hull speed levels.

Long ago they used to build two types of UPS. One of them (the least expensive) was a fast switcher. The problem in those days was that these systems were only slow switchers and frequently could not be counted on to switch over to the battery quickly enough to keep the computers running.

So in the old days they used non-switching UPS systems where the battery was being charged all the time AND the load was being carried by the batteries ALL of the time. These were more expensive to build (my understanding) but they worked flawlessly. UPSs all switch so quickly now days that I don't think non-switchers are utilized... for computers anyway.

In essence what I am wanting to build is a non-switching UPS for a boat. When the chargers are hooked up/running they are attempting to charge the batteries and when load increases the charger just works harder.

In a "run away from the storm" situation I'd want to set the low side recharge limit for the diesel/gen/charger to about 100% which would have the effect of keeping the generator on all the time. The generator would simply slow down or speed up to supply the motors with whatever they demanded. In such a situation I would not want the batteries cycling between 100 and 50 percent full with an intermediate running of the diesel but rather just have the diesel run all the time. When you did finally allow the gen to shutdown after such a run (or when the gen system crapped out) your batteries would be at 100% which is where you would want them.

but i do ramble on.....

From: luv2bsailin <luv2bsailin@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: ME0913 vs 180ibl?

Michael,
All the EY units use belts. The assemblies are pretty simple to work on, consisting of bolted together aluminum extrusions and plates. Changing a motor only takes a few minutes. The belt takes a little longer since you have to do a little more disassembly, but it's all really straight-forward nuts and bolts stuff.
I like your idea about publishing some better assembly drawings/photos, I'll mention it to Scott next time I talk to him. In fact I have been bugging him to hire me to do some 3-D models and electrical drawings and such, but so far he hasn't bit. Meanwhile I'm sure he'll be happy to give you any info you need if you give him a call.

I also like your "all electric" boat concept. My brother Scott (of Electric Yacht) has been talking to some industry folks and apparently it's a concept that's been getting some attention. I think it has real possibilities if well executed.

I'm planning something like that for my little Albin 25 trawler. I've got room for about 1KW of solar on the hard-top, and will probably do a deployable wind genny and a tiny Diesel gen-set for backup. I don't think anyone sells a turn-key system, but most of the components are available from various sources. It's mainly a systems integration task. That's what I do for a living, but on airplanes, so I'm thinking I might be up to the challenge. Should be fun. I'm hoping to start buying some of the big pieces this fall.

I'll try and work up a blog or something as I go along, and will continue to haunt this group.

Cheers,
Jim McMillan

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Mccomb <mccomb.michael@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Capt Geoff,
>
>
> The part of my goal that you guys can address is to provide the opportunity for redundancy and easy self repair.
>
>
> The ME0913s are readily available from many sources and for as low as $600 so i'd like to keep one in my stores. That combined with the ability to physically replace a motor without too much trouble is important to me.
>
> I am also trying to find a way to use a diesel engine with additional ME0913s attached as generators.Â I have not completely convinced myself that this is a good idea.Â If ME0913 generator approach cannot or best not be done, then i will end up with a dc genset and a spare large frame 48v alternator.
>
> I am having a bit of trouble determining from the drawings how one would go about swapping out a motor or a belt (are the 360ibls using belts?)...Â do you have any photographs of the 360ibl?Â
>
>
> It might be helpful for you to generate more interest if there were a series of photos showing the various stages to breaking down for one of your units.Â Not all but a lot of boat people like to be able to repair things themselves.Â One cannot carry a spare or replace a diesel at sea and that represents a great opportunity for the electric boat people if they will only grab onto it
>
> I wish to setup and utilize a system as a giant UPS.Â Â It will be charged via shore power, solar cells, wind turbine or whatever and then as the final backup by a diesel genset.Â With the UPS mode in mind it is obvious that the whole thing should function automatically to recharge the batteries.Â Â In the case of all but the genset this should be occurring whenever there is the opportunity based on electricity being available.Â The genset will be setup so as to automatically come on when the batteries reach a certain level of discharge.Â Â So like I say, just a big UPS system powering electric motors and everything else on board.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: geoff gamsby <geoffgamsby@...>
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:32 AM
> Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: ME0913 vs 180ibl?
>
>
> Â
> electric yacht uses Montenergy motors one of them being theÂ ME0913. Electric yacht integrates these motors into a their systems and warranties the whole assembly. Â Creating a plug and play system.
>
>
> Capt Geoff
> LakeUnionCharters.com
> 360.399.6490 (Info &Â reservations)
>