ah yes, you are right.... i assumed...
i am getting nearer to jumping in but want it all laid out in theory at least....
when you use all off the shelf pieces it gets VERY expensive so I am looking to replace some of the pieces...
it looks as though for pure off the shelf you could use an EnerMatic Systems equipment
http://www.amplepower.com/products/enm3/index.htmlI had to find it again but basically the EnerMatic Systems could handle things right out of the box. However a preconfigured 48v/100amp gen/charger system goes for about 14k. It is built to make use of solar, wind, and other power sources while completely monitoring and controlling the generator/charger. All very user programmable and very energy efficient of course.
With the EnerMatic the remainder of the energy providing systems simply become plug-in add ons. I will write to electricyacht to get more info on exactly how their 360ibl is constructed. Their system appeared to be made of dual ME0913s but they may be having some similar motors built in a way that precludes the use of ME0913s as good standby replacements and this is why I asked the question in the first place.
The EnerMatic Systems controllers alone (sans generator/charger) go for about $6500 and that seems a bit extreme to me. I am looking for alternatives to this controller that will fill the same needs AND, as stated before, at the possibility of using a diesel with ME0913s attached as generators.
As for battery banks I would wish to end up with a "reasonable" size. Reasonable being one that would allow me to enter and exit marinas as well as operate just a few electrical devices. I am anticipating perhaps 200-400ah at 48v storage divided between two banks. I currently calculate that to be between 1-2 hours of low hull speed cruising. When the big storm is approaching however, I would wish to be able to turn my back and motor at hull speed for 24 hours straight in order to get out of the way. Batteries alone are many decades away from doing what 100 gal of diesel can do.
At the end of an uneventful trip I'd like to still have the exact same 100 gal with which I began the voyage.
Again, just trying to cover all the bases and dig up all the alternatives that I can. I could more than likely build the equivalent of the EnerMatic BUT the project would probably take me three years rather than the 3 months that I would like to estimate as reasonable. That is based on the timeline errors in my previous predictions for previous projects I have taken on and I don't believe that I want to wait that long to get sailing. I am intrigued though... a VERY dangerous sign.
From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:32 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: ME0913 vs 180ibl?
Hi Michael,
I don't think that Geoff is part of Electric Yacht. If you have specific questions or suggestions for Electric Yacht, you should probably have those conversations with the company directly. They seem pretty easy to get a hold of, and I think that they're fairly willing to discuss their product.
As far as an automated, multi-input, marinized UPS system that can handle a traction drive, you're heading into new territory, at least I've never heard of a successful one. If you can design, fabricate, install and debug a system like this, you might be able to sell a few. I encourage you to put together a full solution like this or maybe work with one of the existing vendors, it might help the industry.
But I think that you can start by converting the drive to electric and then deal with the extra systems later. You might find that you don't need all of the things that you think that you do, I know that many of us have discovered that. There's nothing like practical experience to figure out what you really need.
The best part of electric conversions like ours is that you don't have to do it all at once. You can put in a drive and a basic battery bank. If you figure out how to build the "UPS" system, then you can add it to your existing traction bank. If you figure out that you just need more range without the extra gadgetry, you can exand your battery bank. If a big breakthrough in storage has occured, you can upgrade your batteries. Add cooling to your drive, if it needs it. Change your reduction ratio, if it needs it. There are a number of different ways that you can evolve your boat. My point is that electric drive systems can be much more iterative without putting lots of labor or money at risk. You can do it all in smaller steps than a conventional drive system.
But you sound like you're really going to do this. So I would encourage you to take the plunge and make it happen. Don't get stuck in "analysis paralysis". You already know enough to get started, you can figure out the rest as you go.
Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Mccomb <mccomb.michael@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Capt Geoff,
>
>
> The part of my goal that you guys can address is to provide the opportunity for redundancy and easy self repair.
>
>
> The ME0913s are readily available from many sources and for as low as $600 so i'd like to keep one in my stores. That combined with the ability to physically replace a motor without too much trouble is important to me.
>
> I am also trying to find a way to use a diesel engine with additional ME0913s attached as generators. I have not completely convinced myself that this is a good idea. If ME0913 generator approach cannot or best not be done, then i will end up with a dc genset and a spare large frame 48v alternator.
>
> I am having a bit of trouble determining from the drawings how one would go about swapping out a motor or a belt (are the 360ibls using belts?)... do you have any photographs of the 360ibl?Â
>
>
> It might be helpful for you to generate more interest if there were a series of photos showing the various stages to breaking down for one of your units. Not all but a lot of boat people like to be able to repair things themselves. One cannot carry a spare or replace a diesel at sea and that represents a great opportunity for the electric boat people if they will only grab onto it
>
> I wish to setup and utilize a system as a giant UPS.  It will be charged via shore power, solar cells, wind turbine or whatever and then as the final backup by a diesel genset. With the UPS mode in mind it is obvious that the whole thing should function automatically to recharge the batteries.  In the case of all but the genset this should be occurring whenever there is the opportunity based on electricity being available. The genset will be setup so as to automatically come on when the batteries reach a certain level of discharge.  So like I say, just a big UPS system powering electric motors and everything else on board.
>
> Michael
>
I don't think that Geoff is part of Electric Yacht. If you have specific questions or suggestions for Electric Yacht, you should probably have those conversations with the company directly. They seem pretty easy to get a hold of, and I think that they're fairly willing to discuss their product.
As far as an automated, multi-input, marinized UPS system that can handle a traction drive, you're heading into new territory, at least I've never heard of a successful one. If you can design, fabricate, install and debug a system like this, you might be able to sell a few. I encourage you to put together a full solution like this or maybe work with one of the existing vendors, it might help the industry.
But I think that you can start by converting the drive to electric and then deal with the extra systems later. You might find that you don't need all of the things that you think that you do, I know that many of us have discovered that. There's nothing like practical experience to figure out what you really need.
The best part of electric conversions like ours is that you don't have to do it all at once. You can put in a drive and a basic battery bank. If you figure out how to build the "UPS" system, then you can add it to your existing traction bank. If you figure out that you just need more range without the extra gadgetry, you can exand your battery bank. If a big breakthrough in storage has occured, you can upgrade your batteries. Add cooling to your drive, if it needs it. Change your reduction ratio, if it needs it. There are a number of different ways that you can evolve your boat. My point is that electric drive systems can be much more iterative without putting lots of labor or money at risk. You can do it all in smaller steps than a conventional drive system.
But you sound like you're really going to do this. So I would encourage you to take the plunge and make it happen. Don't get stuck in "analysis paralysis". You already know enough to get started, you can figure out the rest as you go.
Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Michael Mccomb <mccomb.michael@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Capt Geoff,
>
>
> The part of my goal that you guys can address is to provide the opportunity for redundancy and easy self repair.
>
>
> The ME0913s are readily available from many sources and for as low as $600 so i'd like to keep one in my stores. That combined with the ability to physically replace a motor without too much trouble is important to me.
>
> I am also trying to find a way to use a diesel engine with additional ME0913s attached as generators. I have not completely convinced myself that this is a good idea. If ME0913 generator approach cannot or best not be done, then i will end up with a dc genset and a spare large frame 48v alternator.
>
> I am having a bit of trouble determining from the drawings how one would go about swapping out a motor or a belt (are the 360ibls using belts?)... do you have any photographs of the 360ibl?Â
>
>
> It might be helpful for you to generate more interest if there were a series of photos showing the various stages to breaking down for one of your units. Not all but a lot of boat people like to be able to repair things themselves. One cannot carry a spare or replace a diesel at sea and that represents a great opportunity for the electric boat people if they will only grab onto it
>
> I wish to setup and utilize a system as a giant UPS.  It will be charged via shore power, solar cells, wind turbine or whatever and then as the final backup by a diesel genset. With the UPS mode in mind it is obvious that the whole thing should function automatically to recharge the batteries.  In the case of all but the genset this should be occurring whenever there is the opportunity based on electricity being available. The genset will be setup so as to automatically come on when the batteries reach a certain level of discharge.  So like I say, just a big UPS system powering electric motors and everything else on board.
>
> Michael
>
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