Myles: Sounds like they were using an external gas tank to the generator and the line from that gas tank was what was leaking. Don't know why they felt the need to use an external tank instead of just using the one on the generator but, my Honda 2000 runs around six to eight hours and I never felt the need to use an external fuel tank to power the generator. I also noticed they had the generator on a table IN the cockpit. Duh! Not sure where the external fuel tank was but, I suspect it was under the table or worse sitting next to the generator on the table. Double Duh! So it's possible the the leaky fuel line allowed the fumes to fill the cockpit until it reached the generator or maybe they had smokers on board. On my boat the generator is operated outside the cockpit coaming and any fuel jugs are on the opposite side of the cockpit also outside the cockpit coaming. I would never operate it inside the cockpit like this fellow did. Capt. Mike
--- On Sat, 3/19/11, Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Myles Twete <matwete@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Portable generators
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, March 19, 2011, 5:45 PM
Do people really contact their insurer every time they modify their car, their boat or their house? Imagine if each insured did so for each mod… The relationship between my boat insurer and myself is frankly my own business. They only know that the hull is a wooden home-built hull and that the boat is powered by an outboard motor and that the stated value is whatever it is----and the fact that I've probably given them $2200 over the last 14yrs and had not a single claim. There has been no conversation as to how it's actually powered other than an outboard—could be diesel, gas or electric---they didn't care. They've never asked to see design docs on the hull construction, never asked to see that it was wired to meet ABYC. I didn't contact them when I added a 400watt wind mill (now removed) or when I converted the boat to electric, replaced or reconfigured the battery bank, swapped the ADC electric motor for an ETEK, changed controllers, added a Link10, bring a 2nd power supply on board or on the rare occasion when I bring my Honda genset onboard and for longer trips, an extra 2-gal of fuel. I won't be contacting them when some day I swap out the lead-acid pack for lithium batteries and the last thing I expect to ever do is contact the Coast Guard regarding any of this. Would you call your insurance agent or the police if you installed a cruise controller on your car? I know of one boat fire locally that was reported as a "generator fire". And that was with a diesel-powered Christmas Ship this past winter. The fire started when a "honda generator" mounted on the back deck of the boat ignited fuel that had leaked from a fuel line. The charred generator appears to have been at least a Honda EU3000i in size. After the generator caught fire, it turned into a dangerous fire and fireball when a "plastic gas can" ignited nearby. Two days before the fire, we were guests on one of the Xmas ships and that same boat that later burned couldn't get its main generator working---not sure if this deck mounted Honda was its "main generator" or if there's a permanent one below. Since the boat I was on had a spare Honda EU2k, we went back to the dock and offered that to them so they could join us. Everything went well that night. Here's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbOd-rMRBa4 Fortunately, they were able to save the boat thanks to the fire being ON DECK and not DOWN BELOW and the fact that Portland had that day just launched a new fire boat that was still on patrol nearby. -Myles Twete, Portland, Or. From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Johnson
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:43 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Portable generators Eric , I don't know what the American Coast Guard position is to using non marine portable petrol generators on board boats is , that is why I am asking. Or your insurance company. Certainly , if I was to use something like this I'd want to know , and I'd want the response in writing. Sorry for being such a killjoy. My ideal , like you , is to sail. The reality is that this area demands a very good auxiliary setup , which I have on my current boat. But for a number of reasons I won't go through again now , I'd like to get another boat , more suitable for what I do ( fish under sail) , but the reality is I'll be mostly motor-sailing. This I'd like to do with an electric motor and sails , I reckon that would suit me just fine. But I'll have my marine diesel to use for propulsion , when I need to , and to keep the batteries up. Just for interest sake , I might contact my insurer by e-mail , and pose them a few questions , to see how they respond.
From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 19 March, 2011 7:34:48 PM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Portable generators
Rob,
You already have the same situation today with everyday rabble running "installed" portable generators to power their microwaves and blenders. Electric boats aren't going to make people less responsible. If anything, a drive system that takes consideration and energy management should raise the awareness of the consequences of not paying attention.
I still understand your position, but I believe that most of the boats that you've heard with burning outboards are considered to be the operator's fault through operator errors, negligence, or poor maintenance. The fact that the boat originally complied with USCG regulations and ABYC standards didn't prevent the accident. That's why my BoatUS magazine constantly states that more than 90% of mechanical failures including onboard fires could be prevented with attention and maintenance.
I looked up the 2009 USCG accident statistics and of the 197 fires/explosions related to fuel, 96 were open motorboats, 64 were cabin motorboats and 20 were personal watercraft. 11 more were on houseboats. Only 2 auxiliary sailboats caught fire or exploded during 2009, including boats that were anchored, moored or docked. Are auxiliary sailboats inherently safer than other powered vessels (I don't think so) or are the operators more attentive?
I understand your concern, but perhaps we're trying to mitigate a problem that doesn't actually exist.
At this time, I am not aware of any statutes prohibiting the use of portable generators on-board, nor does my insurance take a documented position for or against them. If you are aware of a USCG regulation concerning portable generators, please let us know. It is my impression that we are a generally law abiding group.
Eric
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@...> wrote:
>
> Mike , Eric , what is the USA Coast Guard position on this type of portable
> generator being used to power a boat ?.
> What is your insurers position ?.
> The difficulty is , I believe , while you might have people like yourself , who
> take electric power very seriously taking all due care , what if the everyday
> rabble decided to take on electric power from a portable generator, with the
> same nonchalance and lack of due care that they due with the outboard . The
> outboard at least is designed for marine service , the Honda generator is not .
> And like I have said before , there is nothing more sobering than talking on the
> radio to someone 40NM out to sea , who has just had his outboard burst in to
> flames.
> Or to see a boat blow sky high , from petrol fumes.
> I'd like to know what your insurers , and your Coast Guard think of them.
> I'm not passing judgement on you good people , but where does the industry go
> from here ?.
> Regards Rob J.
>
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