Might have been sloppy reading on my part; I was thinking a 12v system (that's what I have), but the OP did say the Torqueedo was 24v. So that would mean 4 batteries in series and 2 12v panels in series or 1 or more 24v panels in parallel.
With a 24v propulsion battery, charging the 12v house battery might be a problem. probably the easiest would be to install a controller that can take the 24 volts from the panels and convert it to 12v for the house battery. I think he'd have to have two controllers, one for the 24v battery and one for the 12v battery. two of these should work and as controllers go they're not that expensive: http://www.solar-electric.com/12vo10ampmpc.html. Just set one for 24v-24v and the other for 24v-12v. And forget the "combiner" I mentioned earlier, it wouldn't work.
Bill
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <sstuller@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> So much for my sloppy reading. I was thinking of four batteries in series for 225 AH and 24 volts. But the power requirement is the same with 450 AH at twelve volts. 250 watts divided by 12 volts is about 20 amps which is four percent. Two of the 130 watt 12 volt (17 Vmp) Kyocera panels in parallel would be enough for absorption. On a small boat (25') there isn't much room for any more. Thanks. Steve S.
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "stmbtwle" <stmbtwle@> wrote:
> >
> > All well and good Steve S BUT:
> > 1) 4 golf batteries in a 12v configuration are 450 amp hours. 4% of that is 18 amps. A "12v", 135 watt panel has a max output of about 8 amps. So even with two of them you're not going over that 4%. And that's in the middle of the day with the sun overhead. The rest of the time the charging will be at a lower rate anyway. A good MPPT controller could boost the peak rate to 20 about amps.
> >
> > 2) 25% of 450 amp hrs is 125 ah or around 1400 watts, or about 1 hp for two hours, or 2hp for 1 hr. So I think the idea of "only" discharging them to 75% is a pipe dream (especially if they're not fully charged to begin with). If I were using those batteries for propulsion I'd want all the charging capacity I could afford. Bear in mind that in "bulk" charging, the batteries will accept a lot more than 4%.
> >
> > 3) Also consider that on sunny days the solar panels will contribute directly to the propulsion motor or house loads, reducing the load on the batteries. Again, the more the merrier, IMO. I run 600w on 6 gc batteries... and there are times when I need that power.
> >
> > Solar power is addictive... John can start with a single 90 or 135 or 185 watt panel but it's likely that he'll want to add more later, which is why I suggested over-sizing the controller, so he won't have to buy a new one every time he decides to add a panel. Good controllers ain't cheap.
> >
> > One big panel is cheaper than two smaller ones (providing you can find a place to put it). I can get an 85w panel for $300, but a 185w is only is only $24 more at $324. To me it's a no-brainer.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <sstuller@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The problem with lead acid batteries is that during the absorbtion phase re bringing the batteries to full charge from 80% to 100% they will only accept a charge rate of three percent to four percent of their 20 hr AH rating. It is a slow process bringing batteries back to 100 percent and if you only discharge them to 75 percent to 80 percent there is not much point in having a lot of available amps because the battery acceptance rate is so low as you get above 80 percent. Thanks. Steve S.
> > >
> > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "stmbtwle" <stmbtwle@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just to be on the safe side I'd size the solar array so it would in theory charge the batteries from dead to full charge in a week. 2 sets of GC's at 225ah = 450 ah + 1 house at 100 ah = 550 amp hours or 7425 watt hours. 7425/5 days 1485 wh/day. Figure about 5 hrs charging time (my experience here in Florida): 1485 wh/5 hrs = 297 watts.
> > > >
> > > > So in my opinion you'll need about 300w of panels. Figure about $600-$800 for new panels (2 big ones will be cheaper than 3 small ones), another $200 for a 25 amp MPPT controller, and $100 for a battery combiner so you can charge both the propulsion bank and the house bank. Somewhere around $1000-$1200.
> > > >
> > > > You might get away with less particularly if you don't run the batteries down or use the boat every week. On the other hand you don't get much on rainy-cloudy days, or in higher latitudes, and there's some inefficiency in the charging. So with the info you've given me those are my figures and I'm stickin' to em.
> > > >
> > > > You could start out with a single 135 watt panel and a 25 amp controller; and see if it's enough. If not buy a second identical panel (the 25a controller can handle both) Don't try to go cheap on the controller; the cheap ones aren't as efficient and if you upsize your array you don't want to have to buy another controller (been there).
> > > >
> > > > Go for it. I have solar on my houseboat and on my home, and love it!
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Richard Mair <fullkeel2000@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Â John.
> > > > > With 5-15 knot winds forget the wind turbine..We had one (air-x) on our alberg 30. At 12 knots the output was still below 1 amp. so less than 12 watts. I did see 250 watts from it at times but not sustained and the wind was over 20 knots. It was rated at 400 watts. It did affect sailing performance as well.Â
> > > > > Â With solar we have 90 watts of panels..If we use 10% of our 9600 watt bank it takes the week to come back up.. This is tied to a dock with the boom off to one side so as not to shade the panels..I should point out that we run the house from a dc/dc converter and there is a computer fan running all the time for the composting head.
> > > > >  On a mooring remember that with tides and wind the boat will be facing different directions all the time so you would have to have the panels above the boom on a mount that  you could remove for racing.
> > > > > Since we are a little further north you may get slightly better results from the panels..Â
> > > > > If the panels are regulated they will not overcharge the batteries if left unattended. I am sure you will get some firm numbers from others but this is what we found.
> > > > > Richard
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: John <johnpomer@>
> > > > > To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 8:00:10 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Electric Boats] Opinions Wanted - recharging four (4) GC2 batteries while on a mooring
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Â
> > > > > During the past year, I have recharged the four (4) GC2 batteries that power a Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 (Tiller model) using shore power at our slip. Next year I would like to eliminate the cost of the slip (~ $2500/year) and use just a mooring.
> > > > >
> > > > > QUESTION:
> > > > > How to size photovoltaic panels and/or wind turbine while still having space on the boat and be "safe" to leave the setup unattended during the week?
> > > > >
> > > > > BOAT:
> > > > > This year we used a Capri 22.
> > > > > Next May we will use our Cape Dory 25 with the same batteries and motor while the Capri "takes a rest".
> > > > >
> > > > > BATTERIES:
> > > > > 4 GC2 6 volt Energizer batteries from Sam's Club ($75 each)
> > > > > 1 12 volt deep discharge "house" battery separate from the motive batteries.
> > > > >
> > > > > BATTERY SPECIFICATIONS:
> > > > > GC2 : SAM'S CLUB
> > > > > Amp-Hour at the 20 hour rate: 225Ah
> > > > > Minutes at 75 amps: 110 minutes
> > > > > Minutes at 25 amps: 447 minutes
> > > > > This is manufactured by Johnson Controls Mexico.
> > > > >
> > > > > ELECTRICAL CONSUMPTION:
> > > > > I have been very pleased with the performance of the Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 and battery setup for our Capri. It is about the same as the 5 HP Nissan (2-cycle) for top end, but MUCH better for all other speeds especially docking.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Cape Dory 25 is twice the mass and has a full keel with a motor well in the lazarette. If the Cruise 2.0 (24 volt) is lacking in power, I would change to the Cruise 4.0 (48 volt) sometime in the future.
> > > > >
> > > > > We typically daysail on weekends and did participate in the Wednesday evening Beer Can races this summer. We also found ourselves motor sailing across Boston Harbor to join in several regattas (since we were running late for the start times).
> > > > >
> > > > > Normal leaving the slip and returning consists of about 30 minutes total at 40 amp draw max. The voltage display starts at 26.2 vdc and drops to 25.4 vdc. On a few rare occasions when we motored at close to full speed for an hour total, the voltage would read 24.5 vdc and would rise to 25.1 after a few minutes of "resting" after reaching the slip.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking at the usage over this summer, we typically use only 20% of the capacity on daysails. We may use 30-40% when we rush to the starting line on Wednesdays especially if the start is at the far side. Motor sailing around the Boston Harbor Islands (with the tide, but no wind) we still used only about 50% of the capacity.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > >
> > > > > So, I am looking into ways not to need shore power to recharge the batteries for this "typical" usage.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would accept a "full charge" only 80% of the time rather than 100%. (I know I can use a generator but will ignore that option for this discussion.)
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) What size photovoltaic panel would allow the batteries to be recharged within 3 days from: 80%, 50%, 20% SOC? (Assume "realistic" sunlight, but ignore "rainy" days.)
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) What size wind turbine would allow the batteries to be recharged within 3 days from: 80%, 50%, 20% SOC? (Assume variable winds 5 to 15 knots.)
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > >
> > > > > Electric motoring is so nice - quiet, clean, instantly on. We also will "sail" more and have improved are skills.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > John
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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