On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:34 AM, James Sizemore james@deny.org [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
If you paid more the $8000 for a 8kw marine generator, you got ripped off, I suggest you get a subscription to Boats and Harbors, or just check the store (i.e. New) section on eBay. It will not take you long to find under 10 thousand prices for new big brand marine generators.Also the Polar price you listed is for there absolute smallest generator. And there is no place you will find them for less, the Kohler listed above for less then half the price would give you more DC to you bank with the right charger. Yes Quattro is 3k but worth every penny. It is also a world class inverter, if you just wanted a 140 amp charger, you could fine one for much less then 3k. But I think the extra for a Quattro would make your quality of life on a boat worth the extra pennies. Just for the boondocking feature alone. I wold not have anything else on my boat but a Victron inverter/charger.
On Mar 1, 2017, at 7:26 AM, Chris Hudson clh5_98@yahoo.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Hi James,A Quattro goes for around $3k and the 8KW AC marine generators I've seen online run from $12-$15k. Polar Power has a D.C. generator for around $18k. Which AC marine generator were you referring to?Chris
Sent from myPhone
On Feb 28, 2017, at 19:55, sinbosn2@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hannu,You have provided some very interesting reading. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to wait as the diesel is siezed. :-(However, the other questions you raise demand some serious thought.Thank you very much for your insight and time.Blessings,
Jack Barrett +
(Please excuse typos or apparent minor contextual or spelling errors. My 'smart' phone really isn't. At times, I will miss the obvious errors during review by pressing "SEND", before literary or grammatical perfection has been achieved.)
Sent from my BlackBerry Z10 smartphone on the Bell network.
Any transit to open water would seem to have little to no wind, current, waves, storms, etc.
Any nr of posts and experience proves about 1-2 kW of actual power used will get you 3-4 knots.
3-4 kW - 3.5 -5.5 knots.
4 kW x 5 knots = 4 kWh for 5 miles, and you need 6 miles for there and back.
=> 4.8 kWh at top rational transit speed.
Days-between ..
what is your power budget in watts ?
Solar ?
A 12 m boat can easily take 4-6-8 panels on custom fab mounts.
PV power incoming charge / day: 4 panels x 5 hours x 330W nominal = 6.6 kWh.
Most sailboats use half or less than that, but have very little stuff in use.
If You sit at anchor, cook on gas, your only draw is refrigeration and or freezer, perhaps, at a 416.
iPads, etc. add to the use.
But if you watch (big) tv, with a networked appliance and an inefficient router, your power draw can be == 4x the refrigerator.
Do You want the TV/router/iPad and how much ?
What is Your budget level ?
What is Your skill/tech level vs costs ?
Any of the 5-6 parameters are critical path exponentials, that can or will change the best outcome 400% or more.
Best choice, if funding is available, and tech and time is not an issue.
Get a crashed tsla electric car, take the battery, use suitable conditioning as preferred.
This will be the best, by far, in terms of cost/kWh, longevity, total power.
It will also be somewhat involved.
The big boat at 12m or 41.6 f colours my recommendation.
If You want to buy a "stock" solution from a supplier.
No idea.
Many here are great suppliers of excellent packaged ev solutions.
A possibly important point.
Lion batteries (all batteries) are about to drop 2-4x or 400% in costs, per kWh, retail, 2-5 years.
Any and all battery systems pre-2018 get essentially worthless.
And that is the low-end minimum level.
Today, 2017, US top tier victron LiFePO4 lion batteries have 83 Wh/kg / 500-800$ / kWh.
See pdf of brochure.
In 2019, about 200-300 Wh/kg at 200-300 $.
This is all based on existing production and tech.
Tsla will be selling at 100-120 $ cost a 220-320Wh/kg battery in 4 months.
It is also very, very, very likely the real development is vastly better.
Somewhere to 500-1000 Wh/kg, retail, ye 2019/2020.
There are about 20 proven developments and tech demos at those energy densities, or higher, useful for real-world use.
There are multiple startups often with limitless money, to create such batteries.
It is not obvious - but:
any company that makes a really good dense + cheap + durable battery is much more valuable than google+amazon+apple combined.
The energy-utilities market for batteries is 17T / yr globally.
Total market == 30 T$.
Total value for the potential company somewhere in 1-100T$.
Yes, any company that had a product like that *not-copiable*, would dominate the global economy.
We are about 20-40% from getting all-electric airplanes, at 3-5-10x less cost/km.
It is certain we will get there in 1-2-5 years in battery terms.
At 300Wh/kg - electric airplanes.
At 250-1000 Wh - electric all, including trucks, cargo ships, cruise liners, everything.
I am not a shill for tsla or batteries for mobility or anything.
I think it is by no means certain tsla will rule the auto market, or indeed avoid banruptcy.
But one thing is certain.
If tsla or anyone else can just once make dense cheap batteries, then such will be sold- and they change the world.
If someone else can make them as well or better, then tsla may fail, and or die.
Today, tsla leads at it, at 160 kWh/pack/kg/85 kWh, @ 180$/kWh. Old tech, about 3 years ago.
Soon, tsla leads at it, at 220-300 kWh/pack/kg/85 kWh, @ 100-120$/kWh. New tech, 2017.
On 27/02/2017 02:58, sinbosn2@gmail.com [electricboats] wrote:
The conversion would be to a Morgan 416 Out Island, 27,000 lbs, Ketch Rig , shallow draft.
Intended use would be frequently entering and leaving harbours (Tour type use) and days between any sort of power grid (remote areas, North West Atlantic). Home Port would have about 3NM to open water.
I have been presented with options for 20, 30, and 40KW options. (48, 72 and 96Vdc)
Suggestions on Battery type, solar array, etc
Blessings,
Jack Barrett +
-- -hanermo (cnc designs)
Posted by: James Sizemore <james@deny.org>
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