Sunday, July 22, 2012

Re: [Electric Boats] Electric Motor Components

 

relative or not?
my 12' "mini-henley slipper launch" on a 12v 36lb thrust MK trolling motor,
does 4.5 mph top speed well enough, is a 41" beam at waterline (600lbs).
its spinning a 3 blade kipawa prop helps quite a bit.
 
have had success with a 24v 250w scooter motor and a 5.5" youngs prop,
was feeding it 12v instead of 24, wasnt fast but it sure had torque.
 
youngprops makes some 7" props for 3/8 shaft, could be bored to 1/2 easy enuf.
monsterscooterparts site has some 900-1000w motors and PWM speed controllers,
if you have trouble finding a golf cart to cannibalize, might be good-cheep source.
direct drive gives about 2500 rpm tops, no load. options are pretty easy for toothed belt or small chain reduction for lower rpms and bigger or steeper pitch props if wanted.
 
14ft sq-rt > 3.74 x 1.56 = 5.83 mph theoretical hull speed, x 0.75 = about 4.4
and 5.83 x 0.85 about 4.95 mph.. beyond that its likely to gobble the juice really hard!
 
I also use a simple online calculator, is saying 1100lbs with 1.1hp doing a max of 7mph,
is same to about 1320lbs drops to 6 mph.. 3/4 that being 4.5mph, is about what I'd expect from a 900-1000w motor. this all trolling motor speed stuff, is really all I know here.
 
I have a 50lb thrust 12v motorguide and a 55lb thrust 12v MK sittin here, but maybe too small on power for a beamy little tug? they're about 570 and 600w. my little 12' toy does just as well, same speed and runs longer on the 400w 36lb MK. (its light is why)
 
the 55lb MK has the shaft faired for less drag and a kipawa prop on it,
with a spare stock one, its all new, newly "butchered to fit" and just sittin for now.
if you want to go that route give a holler, its a mechanical speed controller and can show ya how to hook up a couple BIG microswitches to handle full speed without the controller gettin hot and stealing power away from the motor (simple as making the controller backplate into a cam-lobe for direct parallel feed), yeah its low tech low budget stuff.
calc's here showing 0.8hp (600w) oughtta do 4 to 4.5 mph with 950 lbs, same kinda ballpark figgerin as above to arrive at that, and experience with the 12' toy. power demand usually goes up TONS above 75-80% of hull speed. for less speed but more grunt theres always the MK "weedless wedge" prop, it'll slow ya to 3mph but it'll move some weight!
 
there is an advantage to the setup.. cut shaft trolling motor with a spool on top,
rope and pulley steering, and a 5x13 (roughly) motor well.. is easy access.
its using the stock MK clamp mount so if theres a prob its just 2 electric connecters,
a couple carabiners to the steering and its in or out in a minute. I've run into water too shallow and tilt-raised it some to get loose a couple times. pod motor submersed is bit quieter than inboard too. theres 16v AGM's been looking at for a little more kick maybe.
couple 1100 deep cycles to 600w oughtta run 4 hrs full tilt or 6-7 hr on MK's "4" setting. too rough or too windy is gonna affect a little tuggy quite a bit too for its wheelhouse.
 
6hp is about 4500w, depending on weight might be pretty overkill for displacement speeds, a pair of healthy scooter motors belted or chained to a driveshaft might be plenty for it, might be another option to play with. I'd think a couple 4-5-600w motors oughtta do well, full displacement speed only being the 5.8mph for its 14' length. if its got the right shape for it, that 6hp could put it up slow planing could be kinda cool too because it'd shed the displacement drag to get ya 1/2 as far and 3x as fast. not realistic for a tug but 13-14 mph is rollin pretty good if its a near flatbottom.
 
 

--- On Sun, 7/22/12, AJ Gilchrist <andrew@fastelectrics.com> wrote:

From: AJ Gilchrist <andrew@fastelectrics.com>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Electric Motor Components
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 5:47 AM

 
Adam
using a 100' 4000 hp, 55 tonne bollard pull tug as a start point

a 14' model will have 
beam 4.5ft
displacement 2250lbs
scale speed    4.8knots  - this is very near hull speed so even a lot more power wont get you much faster
2 of 4 blade props 12*4.3" pitch (in schottel ducts) or one 4 blader of 22" x 4.3"  - in the end one 12 incher will probably get you moving
turning at 2050 rpm
will require 2 motors of  2hp each and 34ft/bs torque each

One will proabbly give you 4.8 knots and let you tow 14 dighy full of spectators
 
Refer to the google god for the details of the items you mention

The Advanced DC Motor #A00-4009 replaces the  #A89-4001 they are are 36 volt motor 63 rpm/v, rated for 80 amps continuous & 300 peaks and 6hp-28hp,  6.7" diameter about 10" long, weighing 46lbs  (for scale it has too much hp and not enought torque if thats important) A lower rpm/v figure at a higher voltage will give you the same rpm, draw fewer amps and make more torque per amp.  

The controller  is a metal box as big as a few housebricks full of electronics which will cope with the power the motor might draw (it has some redundancy) and some safety sensors as well. 

For your model to work and move, tow a  20 dinghy full of people no problem you will have plenty of power  - but to go faster - the question is why.  The hull will be generating a huge bow wave, which will easily consume the power peak any practical batteries can supply, once you get much over 5 knots. The handling may be getting interesting too.

Best thing is to find retailers who have this type of equipment not hard and talk to them 

Andrew Gilchrist
www.fastelectrics.com
Australia


On 18/07/2012 10:57 PM, Kevin Pemberton wrote:
 
Adam,

Radio shack used to sell an electronics learning kit for basic electronics. Seeing is believing. I am not trying to brush off your questions, but it sounds like this type of thing could help you understand what you are looking at without using expensive parts. If Radio Shack is not in your part of the woods look online for an experimenters kit to learn about motor control. All the principals will be the same with only minor changes in equipment.

You will likely get all the information you need here but like I said seeing is believing.

Kevin Pemberton

On 07/16/2012 06:21 PM, adam.riso wrote:
 
Hello,

I am new to the group. There seems to be a lot of great information on the group available but way over my head. I am in the planning stage of building a wooden 14' mini tug boat powered by an electric (golf cart) motor. The plans that I have go into motors, controllers, solenoids, etc. and I was hoping that someone would be able to simplify it and point me in the right direction as to what exactly are the components I need to purchase. One person who built a similar boat used: Advanced DC #A89-4001 Motor, 6HP/36-72VDC and a Curtis-PMC #1205-201 Motor Controller, 36-48VDC/350A but I really don't understand what that all means. I also have questions about what you use to give it more power (to increase the speed) or but it in reverse, etc. I appreciate any insight. Thank you! Adam




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