T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Hornblower hybrid "Don't eat green snow"

Tuesday, July 7, 2009

Re: [Electric Boats] Hornblower hybrid "Don't eat green snow"

Hans:

You are spot on about being skeptical and not eating the green snow that is floating around lately. I have both an Marine Air X 48 volt wind generator and a solar panel for my 48 volt system. They work well but, you need to know their limitations. I used the wind generator all winter to keep the batteries topped up and it did a great job never touched the grid. Now that the boat is back in the water the solar and wind together work very well on the mooring. But, I still would not give up my Honda 2000i generator. The reality is I would use it to get through the bulk charge cycle of battery charging or to provide a little under three knots propulsion on a completely windless day. Especially if I don't totally want to deplete the battery bank. Even with the small Honda ICE generator on board such a system is MUCH better than the dirty diesel it replaced. Especially as it is the backup after both solar and wind systems. For most of my sails I can
make do with the solar and wind generator to recharge but, after a extended draw down I use the Honda or tie up to a dock for at least the bulk charge cycle of battery charging. Which does not seem to last that long from my experience using a Zivan NG-1 charger.
Yes, I too am a little skeptical about these "green" commercial operations out there so they could get some tax breaks or funding as much as those oil company commercials that tell me they want to be my friend. Then there are the same companies that use to sell Aluminum siding going into the "solar" panel installation business. I converted my 8 ton sailboat to electric propulsion with no subsidies or tax breaks what so ever. I did it because it was a good idea period. Not because their was some public relations angle or tax subsidy incentive. To me there is a great satisfaction sitting in the cockpit with a cold beer watching the wind generator and solar helping to generate energy for the next adventure.

Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

--- On Mon, 7/6/09, Hans Kloepfer <hanskloepfer@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Hans Kloepfer <hanskloepfer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Hornblower hybrid "Don't eat green snow"
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 1:39 AM

Hey Kieth,

Check this website. I am almost sure this is the supplier of the hornblower hybrids' wind turbines. www.aerotecture. com. If you look at the architecture of this turbine you will see it seems to be a combination of a Darrieus lift type and Savonius drag type VAWT (vertical axis wind generator). I think they might get 3kw when motoring into 25kts of wind, but I bet they lose as much in drag on the boat.

I heard from friends that work at hornblower that they don't get much juice out of the turbines. I don't think that the output is even connected to the drive bank of batteries. It normally just charges the house batteries. My friend at hornblower got me on the boat to check the system out; sort of an all access guided tour. It is cool technology, but like so many other such efforts seems kind of a green snow job. They most likely get less than one percent of their energy from wind and solar. They built this boat so satisfy a requisite to receive the cash cow Alcatraz Island ferry contract.

The 55 ft. sailing catamaran that I work on can carry 50 people and we go through about 15 gallons of diesel per week during the windy season. We use conventional inboard diesels. We probably cover 300 miles a week. Thats about 1000 miles per gallon per person potential (We are rarely full). Our average speed is 12kts. Same as the Hornblower cruising speed.

The Hornblower Hybrid steams for less than an hour at 12kts. It can recharge from shorepower which is good if we had a clean grid in San francisco. The way I see it, the best thing about this boat is that it opens the door for technology development and inspires some imagination. I am a sucker for any electric boat technology, but the technology has a ways to go to have a significant environmental impact.

Hans

BTW great time rafting up at Treasue Island Kieth. The first unofficial electric boat rally in SF bay that I know of. Great to finally check out your rig. Cheers and thanks for the beers.

--- On Sun, 7/5/09, aweekdaysailor <aweekdaysailor@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: aweekdaysailor <aweekdaysailor@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Hornblower hybrid
To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:26 PM

I took my daughter up to see the fireworks in Sausalito and on the way there we stopped at the public dock on the Embarcadero - which also happens to be the dock for Hornblower's hybrid ferry. It's more or less a conventional looking motor cat - except for 2 10-foot 1.2KW (nominal) wind turbine mounted on deck. I thought at first they were Darius designs - but when you look closely you see there is a plexiglas helix inside the rotors. On top, though not visible, is also a solar array.

I spoke with one of the crew members briefly and he says they routinely get 3KW (1.5ea) from the turbines. He said the motors on this hybrid were adapted from tunnel-boring equipment

I've tried to discover the brand/design name for the turbines and haven't been able to. Does this description ring a bell? They are vertical axis turbines with vertical rotors, and the aforementioned interior helix (it's supported by a steel spiral inside the rotors as well) - as I mentioned they look like conventional Darius turbines, but only 2 rotors.

Thx

-Keith

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