T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Going LiFePo4 [9 Attachments]

[Attachment(s) from James Lambden james@electroprop.com [electricboats] included below]

Hi Steve,

We have a system for CALB 180 batteries, BMS, 7 inch color screen, load shedding and charge management.

If you use 16 cells per battery, the voltage is just over the 50 volt nominal threshold, so you will need to sign a waiver on that and it may affect insurance. However it is just over at 51.2 volts so it really is not an issue from a safety point of view.

The three temp sensors that you have can then go on each battery casing.

My concern is shutting off charging sources, which should be done by way of an on / off switch rather than opening a contactor which can cause an inductive spike in the system which can destroy components. You could put an actuator on the throttle of the diesel.

Similarly, loads need to be shut off without creating an inductive spike, or if that possibility exists, then a suppression circuit is necessary.

Shorechargers can have a safety relay on the AC side to prevent over charging.

On catamarans, regen can be quite a power source, so you would want to be able to shut off regen. Once again this should be done by turning off the motor, rather than opening a contactor which could destroy the controller. You might be able to accomplish this by interrupting the key switch.

You might consider over rides for load shedding. Sometimes it more important to keep a system on, than protect the battery bank from a deep discharge. It might cost you the battery bank, but you may save the boat in the process. Over rides need to be documented.

Here are some photos of our system that uses 180 amp hour batteries.

All the best,

James

James Lambden
The Electric Propeller Company
625C East Haley Street,
Santa Barbara, CA
93103

805 455 8444

james@electroprop.com

www.electroprop.com

On Feb 12, 2015, at 1:27 PM, gnhbus@aol.com wrote:

Hi James, please take a look at Steve Dolan's Project below , I would like to investigate a Solution for him, and utilize a potential ABYC Tech in his Steve's Area as part of the Network Build.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Dolan <SDolan@scannersllc.com>
To: gnhbus <gnhbus@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 11:18 am
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Going LiFePo4

Thanks George I would appreciate it.

Steve

From: gnhbus@aol.com [mailto:gnhbus@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:17 AM
To: Steve Dolan
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Going LiFePo4

Hi Steve, I do not like to promote anything on the Forum, so I am emailing you directly, James Lambden is a very good resource and I can help connect with him if you'd like.

best regards

George

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Dolan sdolan@scannersllc.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 12, 2015 10:32 am
Subject: [Electric Boats] Going LiFePo4

I'm going to be switching from an AGM battery pack to LiFePo4s in the very near future and hope I can get some direction from the group. But first some background. My system was designed and built by Solomons Technology back in 2004. Solomons is now out of business, more so for being ahead of the curve than not having a great system. Back then LiFePo4's were not an option so I have to deal with modifying the current system to handle the new technology. This will be to understand how the lithium's will interact with a generator and Regen through the props with the new pack. So for starters here is what I have.

The Boat:

Lagoon 410 (41')

10 tons

The Motors:

Westinghouse (Homewood Group)

144V DC 9kw (twin 4.5kw motors on 1 shaft per side)

Max current draw-64A

Controllers:

Advanced Motor Controller (4)

3 phase (PWM) brushless

Max 250VDC

Existing battery pack:

Northstar NSB-M12-210

12V / 210 AH x 12 running in series at 144V0

These batteries were installed in 2007 with a 2 replaced over the last 5 years.

Propulsion Bank Charger:

Brusa NLG 511 at 240V input

Note: this charger is programmable for LiPo's and has 3 temp sensors.

GENSET:

HFL (German) with a Kabota motor 16KW output

Note: Genst is A/C with a rectifier to DC. Output is variable at the helm through a rheostat.

BMS:

HDM Systems Battery Equalizer (PowerCheq) http://www.hdm-sys.com/products/equalizer.php (Since someone was asking about)

PakTrakr battery monitoring

General system operation:

Shore charging is performed through the Brusa to the Propulsion bank. House bank charging is then performed through a separate 144V to 12V charger.

Once under sail the props then go to Regen and recharge the batteries.

If on a long sail and no wind the genset is energized to charge the batteries and then output to the motors. This is manually controlled by watching the amp draw at the helm for the genset.

Typical usage has me running at a total of 60A @ 144V for 3 hours at 6/7 knots which is projected hull speed.

Other than 1 controller and a couple Northstar batteries this system has performed excellent over the last 10 years. I'm starting to see a degradation in Propulsion pack run time though and figure it's time to take the next step.

WHAT I WANT:

Replace the existing pack with a LiFePo4 pack consisting of 48 (probably) CALB CA180AH Cells. For a pack voltage in series of about 164V.

Note: with the AGM's I bulk charge to 174 volts and tapper off to 164 volts during trickle charge. Once off charger the voltage settles to around 158V.

No changes to the original equipment other than a monitoring system for the Lithium's. The existing PakTrkr and HDM system will not work with the new Bat's.

What I'm not sure of is how to control charging of the Lithium pack from the genset, regen , and charger. I'm planning on using contactors to disengage the charger but not sure of the wiring and haven't found a clear diagram. Since the regen and generator goes through a single point in the control box back to the batteries how would I shut charging off to the batteries once I reach full charge of 3.4 per cell (164V total)? My first thought is an alarm so it annunciates once 164V is reached from the genset. I'm not so much worried about regen since the charge is pretty low and would take a few days on that alone, if at all, since on a along cruise (The Islands) I would be using power all the time with the Nav system but even then I would like to have a warning that I was there (Fully Charged).

So what I need is a clear understanding how a Relay/Contactor system works and how to wire it. In addition I'll ask if anyone knows of a knowledgeable individual in the Maryland area who has worked on a system like this. I am going to contact Sally at Annapolis Hybrid Marine to see if they have any input. To be honest I spent a small fortune trying to find someone 5 years ago to explain some things to me and instead found out how little pro's in the area knew about EB's.

Thanks for any help with this.

Steve in Solomons MD

Lagoon 410 S2E