I remember purchasing propane a few years back for my truck and also my house heating and cooking for $.22 cents per gallon and also purchasing gasoline for around the same price. Desiel was trash fuel and in the americas it was burned in pits because it was in excess amounts. We speak today of fuel shortages but in reality its just supply and demand with the price. Yes one day we will run out but not in the next few hundred years if that.
Also I look back at what batteries the WW2 submarines took to power the subs for 10 hours or more, plus the weight and size of the ships.
World War II American fleet submarines had two batteries, each composed of 126 cells. By comparison, a 12-volt car battery contains only 6 cells, each producing about 2.25 volts when fully charged, with a maximum power output of about 45-50 amps. Each cell in a submarine battery produces from 1.06 volts when fully discharged, to 2.75 volts at optimum output, so connecting the 126 cells in each battery in series gives a usable output of from about 210 to 350 volts, and a power output of as much as 15,000 amps with both batteries connected in parallel. (In earlier submarines, the two batteries could be connected in series for additional voltage, but this was no longer done with the much higher capacity fleet submarine batteries.)
Each cell was about 54 inches high, 15 inches deep, and 21 inches wide, and weighed about 1,650 pounds. The two primary manufacturers were the Exide Corporation (now Exide Technologies) and the Gould Storage Battery Company (now Gould Electronics, Inc.). Each battery cell was housed in a separate acid-proof tank as a precaution against leakage, as the electrolyte was highly corrosive and could seriously weaken the pressure hull if a leak went undetected.
The battery cells were made up of lead plates, suspended in a sulfuric acid/water solution, exactly like that used in car batteries. As the cells were charged, the breakdown of the water portion of the electrolyte could produce hydrogen gas. This was removed through an elaborate ventilation system and discharged outside the pressure hull. If allowed to accumulate, of course, this gas would constitute an explosion hazard.
An additional hazard, which could be encountered in unusual circumstances, was salt water contamination of the batteries. If salt water mixed with the electrolyte, chlorine gas could be produced, with obvious dangers to the crew. A limited chlorine gas problem added to the woes of the Squalus survivors as they awaited rescue.
The battery cells required daily service. This was usually delegated to the junior members of the electrical department, who could generally be identified by the white spots on their dungarees from acid splashes. Because of the quantities of distilled water needed to keep the cells topped up, it was supplied through a hose from large tanks adjacent to the battery compartments. The space above the battery compartments was used for accomodations, with the officers' staterooms, wardroom, and chief petty officers' quarters above the forward battery and the main crew berthing area above the after battery.
Improvement in battery technology and capacity was always an important goal in submarine design. A larger battery would allow longer submerged operation and greater speed. One of the main features of the GUPPY conversions following the war was increasing battery capacity.
Also one note on the size and weight of battery cells was for ballast purposes as well. Tho AGM's were avail the goverments chose those for aircraft and nuclear for subs and other marine craft.
lets hope non of us have to upgrade like this lol
Cheers
robbie
sv qwave
--- In
electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
>
> I pay $2.02 / gallon for propane. 92k btu / gallon vs. gasoline at 125k
> btu / gallon.
>
> Steve Spence
> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
>
http://www.green-trust.org>
http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com/>
>
>
> On 09/26/2010 08:45 PM, Aaron Williams wrote:
> >
> >
> > Steve
> > Any idea what the run time and cost difference of running propane rather
> > than Gasoline? I wonder if you could run hydrogen as well.
> > Aaron
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Steve Spence <steve@...>
> > *To:*
electricboats@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Fri, September 24, 2010 3:10:53 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Electric Boats] Re: battery bank upgrade
> >
> > I run my honda on propane. cleans up the fumes.
> >
> > Steve Spence
> > Renewable energy and self sufficiency
> >
http://www.green-trust.org> >
http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com/> >
> >
> >
> > On 09/24/2010 07:04 PM, Samuel Shallard wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Brian; was very interested to see your post.
> >>
> >> I currently run 4 Lifeline AGM's in series and charge with a 4 Bank Dual
> >> Pro SE charger. I had wondered about using my Honda eu2000 for longer
> >> cruising. I can run 4.5-5 knots pulling around 15-17 amps at 48V.
> >> I had posted a few months ago to see if anyone had tried-also wrote to
> >> Dual Pro but did not hear back.
> >> Like you my only issue would be to set the Honda so the fumes are not a
> >> nuisance. I have been contemplating adding two more batteries for range
> >> but did not really want to add another 200lb in weight.
> >> On Sep 24, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Brian Holt wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well the Elcon charger came this week and I installed it yesterday. It
> >>> charges my AGM bank higher than the Dual Pro. I did test it out
> >>> yesterday with my Honda 2000 generator. With my boat tied up in the
> >>> slip I ran the motor while hooked up to the generator. Monitoring the
> >>> paktrakr, I pulled 27 amp before the generator started bogging down.
> >>> The voltage pulling at 27amp was a constant 49.2 and would
> >>> occasionally climb then drop, but not below 49.2. When I shut down
> >>> everything after 10min of use the voltage read 51.4 which is where I
> >>> had started. I am very happy with these results as 20amp easily pushes
> >>> my boat 4knts (in calm waters). This is a great set up! I rarely will
> >>> use the generator, but I feel comfortable cruising longer distances
> >>> now with this back up. It is also nice to have two chargers onboard.
> >>> Hopefully the cost of LiFePo4 will come down to more reasonable cost
> >>> in the future. Then I will already have a charger that will work for
> >>> the new bank. Next project is to build a platform off the stern where
> >>> I can place the generator while in use to keep the smell and sound to
> >>> a minimum. I already have an idea utilizing my existing swim ladder. I
> >>> will give an update when I have more experience using this set up.
> >>> Thanks again for all the input!
> >>> Brian
> >>> --- In
electricboats@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:
electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>, "Eric" <ewdysar@> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Brian,
> >>> >
> >>> > You will need separate chargers for your AGMs and Lithium banks. The
> >>> batteries have significantly different charging needs. Elcon chargers
> >>> have different charging profiles available for the common LiFePO4
> >>> battery brands on the market. Be sure to confirm that any charger that
> >>> you are considering has lithium specific profiles available. I spent a
> >>> couple of months trying to get a properly configured charger from
> >>> Delta Q, but the factory finally said that they would not release
> >>> their lithium profiles unless I had bought ALL of my storage
> >>> equipment, including batteries and BMS through one of their distributors.
> >>> >
> >>> > But I agree with you, there is no sense in throwing away perfectly
> >>> servicable equipment when you can transition slowly from one
> >>> technology to the other. If I were to set up both banks, I would put
> >>> contactors on both the positive and negative leads from each battery
> >>> bank so that they can be completely isolated from the other and the
> >>> drive system. With the chargers wired to the battery sides of the
> >>> contactors, each bank can be charged independently. One bank can be
> >>> "activated" to the drive , while the other is being charged. One
> >>> drawback that I could see is the need for separate instrumentation to
> >>> track the current in and out of each pack, if you are so inclined. But
> >>> this configuration should work fairly well.
> >>> >
> >>> > Fair winds,
> >>> > Eric
> >>> >
> >>> > --- In
electricboats@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:
electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
> >>> <mailto:electricboats%40yahoogroups.com>, "Brian Holt" <drmsudo@> wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Eric- thanks again. I am thinking of one add on bank of LI then I
> >>> will be able to continue to use the current agm batteries I have with
> >>> the charger. The future will hopefully hold a much better system. This
> >>> way I continue to get the $ out of my current design and expand it
> >>> with the new. Do you know about the charger that will work with my
> >>> Honda 2k? Thanks.
> >>> > > Brian
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:
electricboats-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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