Mike -- It's not that I disagree with you or Bill or Len or anyone else for that matter, it's just that we are all shouting Rule 2 and Rule 17 at each other in different words. We could have a contest to see who can put Rule 2 into their own words in the most colorful or most salty way, but it's still Rule 2.
For those interested in keeping the discussion more on electric boats and less on telling each other how to skipper, I still feel that the growing number of sailboats with electric auxiliaries has implications for the Rules that haven't been felt. I think that the day shape is rarely used because motorsailing has been both rare and easy to spot. As stealthy electric sailboats more common, and are willing to augment their sails with power because it's quiet and not stinky, the question of whether they are under power will be asked more and more by the other people on the water (I bet more than one will be sneaking in a little extra push around the buoys!)
By now you probably all think I sell day shapes for a living; I don't!...but I do think we should all think about your status and what the others know about it.
If you're one of the people who manages to avoid all other boats on the water long before you are at any risk of collision, then you never find yourself in a meeting scenario, which sounds safe and prudent to me. When you do find yourself in a meeting scenario, however, please remember that if you are privileged your initial responsibility is to hold your course and speed so that the burdened vessel can compute a new course that is not a collision course. If they don't or there is not sufficient time or there is some obvious obstacle that makes this impractical, the other rules kick in and you are responsible for avoiding the collision, as we have all shouted in this thread. But you have to realize that if both vessels attempt to maneuver, they may make collision more likely. The Rules are less about making someone yield, and more about making sure that they do not both yield into each other.
For those more interested in the technical aspects of e-boat design, my apologies. I hope the thread titles help you sift to the posts that are of interest to you. It's a big group with a wide range of interests, and the serial nature of the conversation does make it hard to reach back for good info like successful designs, efficiency calculations, etc. Hope the database helps with that.
Paul
--- In
electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Steve Spence <steve@...> wrote:
>
>
http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp>
> cute, but false. I like it anyway.
>
> Steve Spence
> Renewable energy and self sufficiency
>
http://www.green-trust.org>
http://arduinotronics.blogspot.com/>
>
>
> On 10/29/2010 09:53 AM, Mike wrote:
> >
> >
> > "Bear in mind that "dead right" is still DEAD. Period. Think about it."
> >
> > You got that right Willie or to put it another way Graveyards have a lot
> > of people who had the "right of way". Capt. Bill is absolutely right
> > about not assuming anything about the other boaters when on the water
> > too. Avoid collisions at all costs even if you have the right of way.
> >
> > Capt. Mike
> >
http://biankablog.blogspot.com> >
> >
> >
> > --- On *Fri, 10/29/10, Bill Spires /<spiresac@...>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Bill Spires <spiresac@...>
> > Subject: Fw: [Electric Boats] sailing rules and what?
> > To:
electricboats@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Friday, October 29, 2010, 12:32 AM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > *
> > *
> > Guys and or Girls,
> >
> > I am new to this whole groups thing and I do like all the info.
> > That being said, is there some way to access the info by subject
> > only? As a USCG captain I can tell you that when we are propelled
> > by an electric motor we are a power vessel and that yes, most people
> > don't know the rules anyway and I can't remember the last time I saw
> > a sailboat motor sailing with the day shape up. There is all kinds
> > of great info in these post but it eludes me as to how to access
> > what I want to without having to read through all the unrelated
> > stuff. What if I only want the info on batteries? A friend of
> > mine, Jim Long, has experience with robotic and computer controller
> > interfaces along with experience in motor control and would be glad
> > to help with a computer interface. How do I just look for or post
> > to that area?
> >
> > Capt. Bill
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Steamboat Willie <stmbtwle@...>
> > *To:*
electricboats@yahoogroups.com> > *Sent:* Thu, October 28, 2010 7:00:05 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Electric Boats] sailing rules
> >
> >
> > I have to agree with Paul..
> >
> > In my opinion there is only ONE rule that matters and that's Rule
> > 2. That's the catchall rule that says you do what you have to do to
> > avoid a collision (in which case no-one cares), and if you fail,
> > you're screwed. All the rest are just "guidelines".
> >
> > Bear in mind that "dead right" is still DEAD. Period. Think about it.
> >
> > Willie
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 10/28/10, tartan27hull157
> > /<tartan27hull157@...>/* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: tartan27hull157 <tartan27hull157@...>
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] sailing rules
> > To:
electricboats@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 6:18 PM
> >
> >
> > Thanks guys for helping out with the regs.
> >
> > I'll say again, nobody here, least of all me, is saying that the
> > regs give any boat the right to cause a collision by standing to
> > her course, so they can win a legal argument later. I don't know
> > why that keeps coming up. Everybody knows that everybody has to
> > try to avoid every collision, regardless of what the rules say.
> > As I said before, this principle is written right into the rules
> > (2 and 17).
> >
> > I do think it's funny that everyone seems quite sure that they
> > are the only one who knows the rules. It seems like there is a
> > corollary attitude that reads "why should I follow the rules
> > (even though I know them perfectly), since none of these other
> > idiots even know them. I'll just stay out of everyone's way."
> > That leaves you giving way even when you are the privileged
> > vessel, which is certain to cause the other guy to think you
> > don't know the rules. (Maybe that's why everyone thinks everyone
> > else is so dumb...?)
> >
> > To keep this relevant to electric boats, I'll say again that I
> > think the fact that you can engage your propulsion without
> > anyone knowing you have done so increases your responsibility to
> > carry a day shape, even though it's very uncommon practice and
> > apparently not required on small boats in the inland waterways
> > of the U.S. If you don't or can't carry the day shape, at least
> > recognize that other skippers don't know you are motorsailing,
> > and there is no reason to confuse them further by giving way
> > when they are giving way to you.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > --- In
electricboats@yahoogroups.com, captnlen <trikini2008@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > This is sort of de ja vue. Over on the Great Loop list is a
> > similar
> > > discussion on passing and overtaking. Started out as waking.
> > >
> > > Of course there are horn signals for this. Might be for
> > crossing too.
> > >
> > > There is one group busy quoting sections of the rules and
> > correcting or
> > > interpreting it as they see it.
> > >
> > > The other group , which I belong too is the 98%+ of the boats
> > you meet
> > > out there have little or no knowledge of the rules and
> > options, shapes
> > > or signals.
> > >
> > > So I approach every situation with that in mind and never
> > assume or take
> > > on a position or course that even if I am in agreement with
> > the rule may
> > > not be recognized by the other vessel most of the time and
> > cause an
> > > incident.
> > >
> > > Rules are great only if both parties know them.
> > >
> > > May be a great defense in court after the incident but I
> > prefer to avoid
> > > incidents.
> > >
> > >
> > > -- Live Long and Prosper
> > > Capt. Len Susman, retired
> > > Email : trikini2008@
> > > Creator of the TRIKINI Double Outriggers
> > > 13-17-6.47-23-D-Spider-F41
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
I'd rather give them a wide berth (whether I'm sailing or motor sailing) before we get too close to require action on my part to avoid a collision. I've also heard on the VHF more than once of boats in my area that were operating without control because the owners had fallen overboard. I don't assume anything on the waters when I am sailing. 
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