Friday, November 27, 2020

Re: [electricboats] importing batteries wholesale

I've not been brave enough to disassemble them. There is a video of the assembly on alibaba, that might give you some insight. 

On Nov 27, 2020, at 18:33, Bill Farina <bill@thirdcoast.us> wrote:



I'd also be interested in the ability to change out cells if one or more goes bad. Are the internal cells reasonably serviceable?

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Kev
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 6:41 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] importing batteries wholesale

 

Are you concerned about safety? What happens if it gets wet? I would be very concerned that these could cause a very serious fire, and would not feel safe putting people's lives at risk.

I will be interested to hear how these work out.
 Good luck.

 

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 8:18 PM Ryan Sweet <ryan@ryansweet.org> wrote:

This is the link. I got the 7.5kwh version (150ah). 

 

 

I didn't mention researching the companies. I think key is to make sure they have been around a while.   I had some colleagues in Shanghai use a local index to check the Chinese version of the "better business bureau" for whatever that's worth.  Another company that they checked out for me was Rosen Solar. The stuff from Rosen looks to be higher quality, it's bigger operation with several reputable partners in North America, but was more expensive. I took a risk on Felicity Solar and so far it seems ok. 



On Nov 27, 2020, at 17:10, Bill Farina <bill@thirdcoast.us> wrote:



Ryan,

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this all up. Very informative.

 

Would you happen to have a link to the batteries that you ended up purchasing?

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ryan Sweet
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 4:39 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] importing batteries wholesale

 





A few notes about buying batteries from Alibaba, from my recent experience - if you already run an import business or have done this before you probably know a lot more about it, but this was all new to me, so I'm sharing:

 

- note that Alibaba is not analogous to Amazon - the Amazon equivalent is AliExpress, and things are more expensive there.  Alibaba is factory to wholesaler,  but unlike a lot of manufacturers in the us, there aren't a lot of hurdles to buying from them as an individual.

- to import to the US, you will need to fill out the import/customs clearance paperwork and pay considerable fees, as well as tariffs. Basically you do a little work to become an importer (more on this below)

- there is a schedule and some legwork snd you have to pay attention to it or things can get hairy (you might have to pay large fines for not having the paperwork or the shipping company might have to refuse to load the goods).

 

I purchased four 150ah, 48v powerwall style batteries, with built-in BMS and comms port, the BMS can be linked and you can manage them over CAN-bus.  I used a company called Felicity solar. These were NOT IP65 and I would hesitate to install them in an area that doesn't stay mostly dry.  All in all they were about 50% of the cost of any other solution I could find for building my 48v 600ah bank, on which I can motor pretty much all day. 

 

So first is shipping. This is actually pretty reasonable, and about $255 for a regular sized pallet coming from Gaungzhou to a major West Coast port (Seattle) For East/Gulf Coast it may be different. If you will not be able to go with a truck to the warehouse area near the port you will have to arrange a forwarding shipment within the US as well, which I expect costs similarly. 

 

In my case there was lead time between order and shipping, about 20 days.  Your payment is due upfront. 

 

When the factory is ready, they will give you a document for the shipment called a "bill of lading".  First they will give you an electronic copy but then also express shipping you a paper copy. 

 

Then there is the customs paperwork. I observed that it's possible to do this yourself but not recommended if it's your first time.  There are customs clearance brokers who have online services that you can use to get everything straight. I used one called "ClearItUSA".  They weren't particularly helpful but it worked. You have to take the Bill of Lading document and obtain an "ISF" document.  You then have to give this to the factory before the shipment can be loaded.  I think my fees for the clearit process were about $125. 

 

Note: if you do not get the ISF document to the shipping agent on time they can refuse to load the goods and charge you anyway or they can load them and give you a fine. So pay attention and do that part promptly. 

 

The factory/shipping company will have a forwarding company in the US who is authorized to act as their representative here. They can can help answer customs questions but mostly they are just taking another cut.  When the shipment is within seven days of port, this company will send you an "arrival notice" which has the documentation of the name of the ship and the name of the company that will unload the cargo and warehouse it. This is where you will pick up the goods or whom you must contact if yo are going to arrange delivery. 

 

Sometime before the ship arrives, you should receive the paper copy of the Bill of Lading. You have to send this to the US based forwarding agent, along with their fee, in my case $305.  You also have to pay import tariffs (I did this through ClearIt, it was about 10%). Then they tell the warehousing company that the goods can be released. 

 

So then you call the warehousing company from the Arrival Notice and either make an appointment to pick up the goods or to have them delivered. You also have to pay this company a fee for handling and warehousing the goods, in my case this was another $110. I had find their warehouse in the large warehouse district and navigate to their loading dock.  It was pretty straightforward. 

 

All up, the fees and tariffs etc ended up being another $1100 on top of the cost of the batteries, but still that came in far cheaper than any domestic option I could find, I suspect because all of the above is quite a bit of hassle, and I'm pretty sure that it would be a giant hassle or complete non-starter if I needed to return something, so there is that risk as well. 

 

I'm considering doing another order, now that I know how to do all of that, but I am cautiously waiting to see how the performance goes. So far I've purposefully fully drained the batteries twice, and got very close to the full 600ah, in spite of some Peukertt effect (when drawing 150a at full throttle they drain more quickly).  I think I might actually get more if I kept the throttle at 20a. They take about 18h to fully charge using my noco genius 48v charger. 

 

Anyway, for the fellow with the 55' boat thinking about CALB cells, you might consider the powerwall style to save you the bars/cable/BMS/encasing etc. 3s wiring of 3 48v would get you to 144v. They are *heavy* (150lbs ea) though and I had a good workout moving them aboard. 

 

On Nov 27, 2020, at 04:09, Steve Dolan <sdolan@scannersllc.com> wrote:



I'm running the Calb batteries (48) with the ORION BMS and a EVIC monitor. Advanced Motor Controllers. Very happy with the setup.

 

Steve in Solomons MD

Lagoon 410 S2E

 

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> On Behalf Of shredderf16
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 6:59 AM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Repowering a 55' sailboat - Tentative Design

 

Steven,

Do you have a link to the batteries? That's  about half to 1/3 of the costs I've  seen recently. 

Thanks, 

Jerry Barth

 

 

 

Sent from my Sprint Tablet.

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Steven Borg <steve@theborg.family>

Date: 11/27/20 12:31 AM (GMT-05:00)

Subject: Re: [electricboats] Repowering a 55' sailboat - Tentative Design

 

I think I've settled on the setup. Let me know if I've made some poor choices.

Motor and Controller: Hyper-9 HV (running at 144-154V) (also includes contactor and relay)
Charging: TSM2500 x 2 (support up to 6kw at 220V input) (from Thunderstruck)
BMS: Dilithium Designs BMS Controller and 1 Satellite (for 48 cells) (from Thunderstruck)
Batteries: 3.2V 280Ah Lithium (CALB-style) - 48 batteries for 154V (or 45 batteries for 144V) (from Alibaba - shipped from China)

Total cost is approximately $11,000 with the batteries running just over $4k

Besides a Engine Mounting, Throttle and Key, what am I missing in this configuration?

Finally... I'm connecting the engine (1 1/4" shaft) to a 29 spline male end of my 2.57 velvetdrive transmission/ 2.57 reduction.  How the heck do I do that cost effectively?  Slip yoke? Pinion yoke? Spider join? Some home brewed shaft coupling?  Yikes!

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