T-Pain Is On A Boat: [Electric Boats] Shopping For new battery bank help requested!!

Saturday, January 31, 2015

[Electric Boats] Shopping For new battery bank help requested!!

Wow, I learned a lot from your timely post Jason! Wasn't aware of issues with lithium across borders (though not surprised.) I need to get a whole new 48v bank for my new electric motor going in and I've been only looking at AGM: Lifeline 8d [GPL-8DL (255 Ah)] and Odyssey PC1800 in my narrowed search.

I'm surprised how hard it has been to even web search places to find info and prices on lithium/Lifepo4. I looked up that company and they also had a link over to a FL based one (where my boat is far closer to). A copy/paste of "SP-LFP100AHA" brought up shopping sites! There, I found 12v versions and some are actually CHEAPER than the AGMs I've seen! I'm soooo new at this and would love the reduced weight load of Lithium if the AGM price difference is minimal.

Any suggested shopping sites for obtaining my batteries? Either local to Fl or shipping to? Thanks to all of you who've gone EV before me!
-w

On 01/31/2015 08:50 AM, Jason Taylor jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca [electricboats] wrote:

It's 16x SP-LFP100AHA cells with the miniBMS and EV Display SOC meter from CleanPowerAuto.

Everything was purchased from Canadian Electric Vehicles in BC.

Including taxes and shipping to Quebec, it came in at about $3000 Canadian.

The cells themselves were $135cdn each.

I wanted to deal with a Canadian company for the cells, so that I could avoid any hassles with importing an shipping lithiums across borders. I think I did well to go that route. Shipping was under $200 (Victoria,BC to Montreal,QC!) with pick-up at the trucking depot. Randy at CanEV was great to deal with. I recommend him wholeheartedly.

More than lead acid? Yup.

More than quality AGMs? Not by much.

My pack is 4 banks of 4 cells, each weighing 30lbs. Installed behind the engine, it's a simple affair to pick them up with one hand and remove them for the winter. They are currently sitting their shipping crate in my basement, waiting for our < -20C winter temps to go away.

Lithiums are the way to go.

Cheers,

/Jason

On Jan 29, 2015, at 09:39, 'Richard Sanders' rsandersemail@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Jason,

If I do the math correctly that would be around 104 Amp hours at 48 volts. If I may ask, how much do you think you have into that pack in cost?

Thanks,

Ric Sanders

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 8:02 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Charging batteries in series?

NiFe chemistry is ideal for fixed off-grid situations. In a zombie apocalypse, I would love the ever-loving snot out of a NiFe battery pack. Lye for the electrolyte can be made onsite from filtering water through wood ash. So these cells can be terminal shorted, or charged until they boil dry, then rebuilt and be good to go. But for a sailboat? I'll keep my 125lb 5kwh lithium pack, thanks. It will be good for more cycles than I'll have my boat, even though I hope to keep her a very long time.

In an off-grid house at resale, the state of the battery pack is a big unknown and will therefore impact the price, like a roof at the end of its life... NiFe iron batteries can just be topped up or have the electrolyte replaced and be good to go. So I doubt they would lose their value with time.

/Jason

On Jan 29, 2015, at 01:14, 'Myles Twete' matwete@comcast.net [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Regarding NiFe batteries, Jeff indicated:

"Wow, this *is* interesting. I'm looking at the spec sheet for the 300Ah cell at 1.2v. So for 48v I would need 40 of them, and at 23.1 lbs per cell, that is close to 900lbs of battery :) Using their pricing page it looks like that pack would cost $11,400. Has anyone used these for EV applications yet? I do love the idea that you can abuse the crap out of them. They claim 11,000 cycles."

Jeff- Such a pack would yield just shy of 15kwh and cost almost 1.5x what my 30kwh of ex-THINK EnerDel lithium modules cost (3x kwh/$). My pack weighs about 650# (3x kwh/#). If you have $11k for batteries, there are lots of options available to you.

As for cycle life, for pleasure boat use, more than a thousand cycles seems like a multi-lifetime concern and value. I mean, how many of us charge our packs more than 3x per month on average? I'd guess that with PbA, I was at about 30 charge cycle per year usage. Now with a larger lithium pack, I probably am looking at 15-20 charge cycles per year. My pack is likely good to 2000 cycles with still 80% capacity after that---i.e. these lithium batteries' won't be seeing that cycle life for the next 100 years and will more likely die from some other fate before then.

I couldn't place a value on 11,000 cycles for a pleasure boat battery pack unless it were also my commute boat or I otherwise got it out every day of the year for 35 years and had to recharge it daily.

-Myles