you want to keep safety plans unbelievably simple. Those of us that have experienced meltdown can attest
that about 100 points are removed from your IQ for the duration. Has to be experienced to develop full appreciation -
thus I say make escape plans stupidly simple and direct.
Kirk
From: John Paramore <watertoyz@frontier.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: what happens if you sink your boat?
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: what happens if you sink your boat?
This thread seems to be skirting close to topic limits, but I can
offer a thought or two from experience so I'll add a bit. Regarding
gassing batteries, I think risk, if any, is probably determined by
pack size and most don't have enough pack to worry over...And sinking
will reorganize priorities in a hurry.
Regarding being trapped in a sinking vehicle, I think the real menace
is panic. Belts can be easily released if you can maintain presence
of mind, but sealed in a vehicle, a sudden trip into deep water has
great potential to be a brain-scrambling experience. In my bullet-
proof youth I had occasional high speed crashes in racing that should
have prepared me for a controlled escape from a sinking car, but when
I was put into that situation it turned out to be almost off-scale.
In 1963 the car I was driving had a total brake failure on a long
downhill stretch. I had a half-dozen options to stuff or spin the car
but at each opportunity I had to abandon the chance due to a variety
of presented elements like people entering the scene etc. In the end
It came to hoping a long flat dock would be long enough, and it
wasn't. A lot of time and argument went into getting my brother to
roll out the door, and by then the car was too close to the end for
me to bail.
The dock was an abandoned ferry dock with a deep dredged drop-off
(about 50 to 60 ft at high tide). I'd put the window down because I
thought I might not be able to overcome pressure at depth. When the
car went it, it started a slow (disorienting) forward tumble.
Initially I thought I'd nearly reached the end of military service
only to drown in the old man's Studebaker (I was up from Fort Ord to
register for school) The next thought was "No Way!" and I started
clawing my way out. It was a lot like trying to swim up Niagara Falls
but I was out pretty quickly and though deep, able to sort out which
way was up and get there. There was a minor mystery though...My right
hand knuckles were cut up badly and for months bits and fragments of
glass kept working to the surface and out. I thought I'd done a
proper job of evacuating the sinking car and couldn't recall doing
anything to cause the injury.
The following summer I took time to free-dive on the inverted car at
low tide a couple times. On the second dive I looked inside through
the open driver's side window and saw five holes punched through the
windshield. Sheriff's divers told me the holes were there when they
dove to clear the car. So it turns out that despite what appeared to
be a clean escape I'd managed to have a momentary meltdown, And I
think that's the key to the mystery of people drowning in cars.
The experience is very disorienting and even people who've been
through similar experiences can't count on logic and order
prevailing. I'd guess that drowned people found belted into seats
were probably so preoccupied with panic that it never occurred to
them to push the belt release button.
John
On Nov 16, 2011, at 9:29 AM, Eric wrote:
> This is way off topic but I'm pretty sure that all suvivors of
> accidental submersions are no longer buckled in... I guess the
> question is whether anyone that was buckled in before the accident
> ever survived. I don't think that anyone would seriously think
> that seat belts have made cars less safe.
>
> A friend of the family owns Big Island Air in Kona. One of their
> planes had a water landing a few years back. The one woman that
> didn't make it out of the plane inflated her vest while she was
> still inside, trapping her in the cabin. So technically her PFD
> killed her, but that doesn't make PFDs unsafe. (slightly less off-
> topic)
>
> In any case, all of these events occur less often than slip and
> fall deaths in bathtubs. My point is that there are bigger safety
> concerns while boating than Hydrogen Chloride gas if you sink your
> boat.
>
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Kirk McLoren
> <kirkmcloren@...> wrote:
>>
>> my cousin drove a tow truck and in his territory the snake river
>> irrigation canal was the location of several accidents.
>> There were zero survivors among those that wore seat belts. There
>> were survivors - and all of them were unbuckled.
>> Kirk
offer a thought or two from experience so I'll add a bit. Regarding
gassing batteries, I think risk, if any, is probably determined by
pack size and most don't have enough pack to worry over...And sinking
will reorganize priorities in a hurry.
Regarding being trapped in a sinking vehicle, I think the real menace
is panic. Belts can be easily released if you can maintain presence
of mind, but sealed in a vehicle, a sudden trip into deep water has
great potential to be a brain-scrambling experience. In my bullet-
proof youth I had occasional high speed crashes in racing that should
have prepared me for a controlled escape from a sinking car, but when
I was put into that situation it turned out to be almost off-scale.
In 1963 the car I was driving had a total brake failure on a long
downhill stretch. I had a half-dozen options to stuff or spin the car
but at each opportunity I had to abandon the chance due to a variety
of presented elements like people entering the scene etc. In the end
It came to hoping a long flat dock would be long enough, and it
wasn't. A lot of time and argument went into getting my brother to
roll out the door, and by then the car was too close to the end for
me to bail.
The dock was an abandoned ferry dock with a deep dredged drop-off
(about 50 to 60 ft at high tide). I'd put the window down because I
thought I might not be able to overcome pressure at depth. When the
car went it, it started a slow (disorienting) forward tumble.
Initially I thought I'd nearly reached the end of military service
only to drown in the old man's Studebaker (I was up from Fort Ord to
register for school) The next thought was "No Way!" and I started
clawing my way out. It was a lot like trying to swim up Niagara Falls
but I was out pretty quickly and though deep, able to sort out which
way was up and get there. There was a minor mystery though...My right
hand knuckles were cut up badly and for months bits and fragments of
glass kept working to the surface and out. I thought I'd done a
proper job of evacuating the sinking car and couldn't recall doing
anything to cause the injury.
The following summer I took time to free-dive on the inverted car at
low tide a couple times. On the second dive I looked inside through
the open driver's side window and saw five holes punched through the
windshield. Sheriff's divers told me the holes were there when they
dove to clear the car. So it turns out that despite what appeared to
be a clean escape I'd managed to have a momentary meltdown, And I
think that's the key to the mystery of people drowning in cars.
The experience is very disorienting and even people who've been
through similar experiences can't count on logic and order
prevailing. I'd guess that drowned people found belted into seats
were probably so preoccupied with panic that it never occurred to
them to push the belt release button.
John
On Nov 16, 2011, at 9:29 AM, Eric wrote:
> This is way off topic but I'm pretty sure that all suvivors of
> accidental submersions are no longer buckled in... I guess the
> question is whether anyone that was buckled in before the accident
> ever survived. I don't think that anyone would seriously think
> that seat belts have made cars less safe.
>
> A friend of the family owns Big Island Air in Kona. One of their
> planes had a water landing a few years back. The one woman that
> didn't make it out of the plane inflated her vest while she was
> still inside, trapping her in the cabin. So technically her PFD
> killed her, but that doesn't make PFDs unsafe. (slightly less off-
> topic)
>
> In any case, all of these events occur less often than slip and
> fall deaths in bathtubs. My point is that there are bigger safety
> concerns while boating than Hydrogen Chloride gas if you sink your
> boat.
>
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Kirk McLoren
> <kirkmcloren@...> wrote:
>>
>> my cousin drove a tow truck and in his territory the snake river
>> irrigation canal was the location of several accidents.
>> There were zero survivors among those that wore seat belts. There
>> were survivors - and all of them were unbuckled.
>> Kirk
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