Hi
On the subject of wind turbines does anyone have any experience with vertical axis type as opposed to horizontal axis ?
Mark
From: Nanci <nancishouse@aol.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011, 5:13
Subject: [Electric Boats] Low cost wind turbine
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2011, 5:13
Subject: [Electric Boats] Low cost wind turbine
Nanci
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Lockley <lockleymark1@yahoo.co.uk>
To: electricboats <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: pulling the plug...
From: Mark Lockley <lockleymark1@yahoo.co.uk>
To: electricboats <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 20, 2011 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: pulling the plug...
Hi Eric,
do you feel a hybrid system - battery bank and small diesel D.C. generator is inneficient or innapropriate for a 40ft power catamaran - lets say for the relaxed extended cruiser market that want to be less dependant on diesel fuel and have the ability to sit and wait between passages ? obviously a paower catamaran will have a larger roof area available for location of solar especially if it was originally designed around the hybrid concept. your comment appreciated.
Thanks Mark
From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011, 5:54
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: pulling the plug...
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 21 November 2011, 5:54
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: pulling the plug...
Hi Kristine,
I saw your first post, but I didn't respond because you're discussing a project that is vastly different from the projects that I have been involved in. Unlike many online forums, most of the people here don't just make up answers, they will only try to answer questions that they have some background in. I figured that you were more interested in experienced answers rather than armchair conjecture.
Over the yeas here, I have posted a few times about my opinion that battery powered electric drives are rarely suited for power boats (very slow speed canal boats and "narrowboats" are an exception). When hybrid systems are suggested to overcome the lack of range, I have stated before that I don't really see the benefits of adding so much extra cost, weight, and complexity to a regular diesel system.
As a strong proponent for electric drives, even beyond boats, I feel that they are only appropriate for certain use cases. In some situations, they can be an excellent answer and in many situations I feel that they are not worth the considerable compromises. I my mind, battery electric drive is well suited for sailboats because the auxiliary engine is only needed occasionally.
So I'm not a sailboat snob, but in this forum, they represent a very different set of requirements. When I read your original post, I thought that it would be better for you to hear from people that might support parts of your plan, rather than me picking the plan apart, piece by piece.
But basically for an electric drive system, I feel that stern drives, saildrives and regular marine transmission all add too much driveline drag and will decrease the efficiency of a marginal system significantly. I would always recommend a straight drive shaft. Props seem to work much better if they are exposed, away from hull turbulence. I think that the availability of a 72V alternator is the least of your worries.
The one type of hybrid that does make some sense to me, if one has the money to execute it, is to power the boat with an approriately sized diesel system. Then for slow speed "silent running" install a completely seperate outboard based electric drive using Torqeedo products. I don't know how well a pair of Torqeedo Cruise 4.0s would push your 40' boat, but that would be my personal line of investigation. This plan would allow one to experiment and collect objective electric performance data. If the electric drive ended up not meeting your expectations, the entire electric drive system could be sold at a small loss to someone with a completely different project, leaving your boat with a completely effective diesel drive system.
So it's not thet we're ignoring you, it's just that you brought up a project that is a long ways from most of the experience on this board.
Fair winds and smooth seas,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Femm" <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> About a week ago I made a post asking a number of questions about setting up a system on a power boat.... And just like with most sail boaters no one said a thing. Not even a "Hey nice idea" or "Gee that's lame." Over the years of working on fishing boats and owning a power boat, sail boaters show us the finger... TILL they need help in a hurry.
>
> I understand this group is made up of mostly sail boaters and I see you are no different than the ones I have had to deal with out on the water.
>
> I use to work at Marine Service Center in Seattle Wa for a number of years and any boat I worked on I gave the same level of detail to each one to make sure all repairs I did were done right. I didn't care if they were a sail boat or a power boat things had to be done right.
>
> So I see no need to stick around this group. Later.
> Kristine
>
I saw your first post, but I didn't respond because you're discussing a project that is vastly different from the projects that I have been involved in. Unlike many online forums, most of the people here don't just make up answers, they will only try to answer questions that they have some background in. I figured that you were more interested in experienced answers rather than armchair conjecture.
Over the yeas here, I have posted a few times about my opinion that battery powered electric drives are rarely suited for power boats (very slow speed canal boats and "narrowboats" are an exception). When hybrid systems are suggested to overcome the lack of range, I have stated before that I don't really see the benefits of adding so much extra cost, weight, and complexity to a regular diesel system.
As a strong proponent for electric drives, even beyond boats, I feel that they are only appropriate for certain use cases. In some situations, they can be an excellent answer and in many situations I feel that they are not worth the considerable compromises. I my mind, battery electric drive is well suited for sailboats because the auxiliary engine is only needed occasionally.
So I'm not a sailboat snob, but in this forum, they represent a very different set of requirements. When I read your original post, I thought that it would be better for you to hear from people that might support parts of your plan, rather than me picking the plan apart, piece by piece.
But basically for an electric drive system, I feel that stern drives, saildrives and regular marine transmission all add too much driveline drag and will decrease the efficiency of a marginal system significantly. I would always recommend a straight drive shaft. Props seem to work much better if they are exposed, away from hull turbulence. I think that the availability of a 72V alternator is the least of your worries.
The one type of hybrid that does make some sense to me, if one has the money to execute it, is to power the boat with an approriately sized diesel system. Then for slow speed "silent running" install a completely seperate outboard based electric drive using Torqeedo products. I don't know how well a pair of Torqeedo Cruise 4.0s would push your 40' boat, but that would be my personal line of investigation. This plan would allow one to experiment and collect objective electric performance data. If the electric drive ended up not meeting your expectations, the entire electric drive system could be sold at a small loss to someone with a completely different project, leaving your boat with a completely effective diesel drive system.
So it's not thet we're ignoring you, it's just that you brought up a project that is a long ways from most of the experience on this board.
Fair winds and smooth seas,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Femm" <femmpaws@...> wrote:
>
> About a week ago I made a post asking a number of questions about setting up a system on a power boat.... And just like with most sail boaters no one said a thing. Not even a "Hey nice idea" or "Gee that's lame." Over the years of working on fishing boats and owning a power boat, sail boaters show us the finger... TILL they need help in a hurry.
>
> I understand this group is made up of mostly sail boaters and I see you are no different than the ones I have had to deal with out on the water.
>
> I use to work at Marine Service Center in Seattle Wa for a number of years and any boat I worked on I gave the same level of detail to each one to make sure all repairs I did were done right. I didn't care if they were a sail boat or a power boat things had to be done right.
>
> So I see no need to stick around this group. Later.
> Kristine
>
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