Mark: The problem is the location where the charging takes place. With the Zivan charger when the current goes into the battery it passes through the current shunt connected to the XBM battery monitor before it goes into the battery bank so the XBM can read how much current the charger is putting into the battery bank. Because the Dual Pro is connected to each individual battery AFTER the current shunt the currents from the Quad charger are never measured by the XBM or Paktrackr meters. Not sure how you could be measuring current with the Paktrakr? You might be measuring on one of the Dual Pro Quad outputs because the current from one of the quad chargers is measuring on the Paktraker but, I don't think you can be reading all of the current from the individual Dual Pro chargers. REMEMBER we are talking about current not voltage here. The Paktrakr will read the individual voltages on the batteries using the Dual Pro or Zivan chargers just fine but, the current using the Dual Pro charger is a different story.
Capt. Mike
--- On Fri, 5/21/10, acsarfkram <acsarfkram@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: acsarfkram <acsarfkram@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: QUAD BATTERY CHARGERS FOR A 48 VOLT BANK
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 4:19 PM
Mike, I might not understand what you are talking about with regard to the PakTrakr not reading amps during charging with the Dual Pro. Mine does read amps in during charging. You have one battery bank, right? My thought/plan for extended range charging with my two bank system is to run on one bank, purely battery power. When that bank runs down switch to the other bank and start charging the depleted bank. I have not done this yet as I have always had more than enough range for my "local" needs. Mark Santa Cruz CA --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Mike <biankablog@. ..> wrote:
>
> Chris:
> Â
> In theory  the two chargers are never in parallel. The ZIVAN sits across the entire 48 volt bank while the Dual Pro Quad charger sits across each individual battery. So if you can picture from the 48 volt battery banks perspective. The Zivan charger is another 48 volt battery bank connected in parallel with the 48 volt AGM bank. While the Dual Pro Quad charger looks like four individual 12 volt batteries connected in parallel with each individual battery in the bank.
> So in theory the two chargers should not be fighting each other like I think they would if I had two Zivan's connected in parallel across the 48 volt bank. At least that's how I am hoping it will work.  It may not I just hope it passes the smoke test.
> Â
> I did find one rub in using the Dual Pro charger instead of the Zivan for charging the battery bank. Because the Dual Pro is connected directly to the individual batteries it will be bypassing the Xantrex current shunt and Paktrakkr current sensor. So I will really not know how many amps I will have put into the battery bank via the Dual Pro. But, it's not a big issue because keeping the batteries balanced is more important IMO.
> Â
> Capt. Mike
> http://biankablog.blogspot.com
> Â
> Â
> Â
>
> --- On Fri, 5/21/10, hardy71uk <p0054107@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: hardy71uk <p0054107@...>
> Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] QUAD BATTERY CHARGERS FOR A 48 VOLT BANK
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 2:04 PM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> I agree with Myles that its getting near or beyond the power capability of the gen. Just had a sudden thought. Maybe an alternative way of working is to charge the batteries on the quad charger (set at say 10 amps) whilst cruising with the motor/controller connected to the zivan . When you want to accelarate or cruise at a bit more speed for a while switch over to running on the batteries plus quad charger . In this way the zivan is never parralled with the quad. I think I would check with Zivan before I considered ever connecting the two chargers in parrallel.
>
> Chris S
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Myles Twete" <matwete@> wrote:
> >
> > Mike-
> >
> >
> >
> > That 900 + 720w = 1620w…if the chargers actually try to deliver that much in DC, their AC input would require at least 1700w. The EU2000i might manage this or might not. It’ll be closeâ€"but then, that’s only if all these were max’ed out. Here’s what will happen if it goes over: The generator will shut down due to overload. Your recourse? If you can’t throttle back a charger, then you’ll have to be able to physically remove one or more of your chargers---so be prepared to do this!
> >
> > I tried plugging a 20amp and 25amp Lester 36v golf cart charger into my EU2000 only to have it overload.
> >
> > Similarly, plugging in the 20amp Lester and a home-made Vicor supply that dished out an additional 28amps failed. So I pulled out one of the 4amp modules---at 24amps plus the 20amp from the Lester, the genset ran for a minute or so, then shutdown. I had to pull out one more 4amp module before it wouldn’t groan under the load. In the end, I could get about 40amps into 36v steady---i.e. about 1440watts continuous, all day long. As the Vicor is about 85% or better efficient and the Lester, oh, perhaps 80%, I figure the genset was putting out nearly 1700watts or so. So this is just a warning.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Myles
> >
> >
> >
> > From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:21 AM
> > To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] QUAD BATTERY CHARGERS FOR A 48 VOLT BANK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Arby & Chris for the replies.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm going ahead and will be ordering a Dual PS4 for the boat. Good to know they have good customer support too. BTW I found out this charger works for flooded and AGM''s if you are using Gels they need to provide an different charge curve voltage when you order. I understand that the DUAL PRO may not work as I expect in my powering experiment and certainly thermal shutdown is a possibility but, it's worth a try. My Zivan NG-1 can push my 30 foot 8 ton sailboat along at just under three knots with it's 16 amp output. It is maxed out at that point. If I can then start to draw down the battery bank a little and then power up the Dual Pro which can add up to an additional 15 amps to each battery in the bank I am hoping I can get a few more amps to the motor without drawing down the battery bank. I may not be able to get the full 15 amps from each output of the Dual Pro because of the thermal shutdown issue Arby mentioned. But an additional say seven amps
> on each battery could add up to a nice bump up in current (in theory)Image removed by sender.. The 900 watts from the Zivan and the max 720 watts from the Dual Pro should be within the power capabilities of the 2000 watt Honda (again in theory). I'll report back on how it goes. But, even if it does not work out as I expect at least it should be better able to balance the battery bank and at the same time have a backup battery charger for the boat. I look at this as probably the last addition that I will need to make for my electric propulsion system.
> >
> >
> >
> > Capt. Mike
> >
> > http://biankablog.blogspot.com <http://biankablog.blogspot.com/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Arby bernt <arbybernt@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Arby bernt <arbybernt@>
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] QUAD BATTERY CHARGERS FOR A 48 VOLT BANK
> > To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 3:20 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been installing the Dual Pro PS4 with excellent results (+10pcs).
> >
> > I did have one unit which required a warranty service. They faxed me a UPS label, and the unit was repaired and returned quickly.
> > Had I not clipped off a corner to fit it in the boat, they offered to send me an exchange outright.
> >
> > The PS4 is not designed to operate as a power supply off a genny, and will overheat if overtaxed.
> >
> > The LED display correctly identified a weak AGM battery, which was replaced without incident. Very handy.
> >
> > Downsides: The unit is unwieldy to mount, as it relies on old school transformer technology. On the other hand, it can work off a 15a 100vac supply. Some of those remote slips get some pretty droopy power, but the Dual Pro auto-corrects with the heavy transformer. Worth the install effort. Order the hair extenders if the supplied 4ft battery leads won't reach. The original battery wires cannot be extended practically, as they have thermistors in the rubber blocks for battery temperature sensing.
> >
> > Be Well,
> > Arby
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >
> > From: Mike <biankablog@verizon. net>
> > To: ELECTRIC BOATS <electricboats@ yahoogroups. com>
> > Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 4:20:35 PM
> > Subject: [Electric Boats] QUAD BATTERY CHARGERS FOR A 48 VOLT BANK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm about to start my third season with electric propulsion and plan to order a quad type battery charger in addition to the 48 volt Zivan NG-1 charger already installed. I'm doing this to hopefully keep the four 210 amp AGM batteries in the bank in a better balanced state when charging rather than just using the Zivan which sits across the entire bank. I'm also hoping I can use this second charger along with the Zivan to add a few more amps to the controller when motoring and hence more speed without depleting the battery bank. But, the primary purpose will be to balance the battery bank. I'm considering two quad chargers
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) Is a Dual Pro
> >
> > http://www.dualpro. <http://www.dualpro.com/media/pdf/PS4b%20insert.pdf> com/media/ pdf/PS4b% 20insert.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) The second is a Genius
> >
> > www.geniuschargers. <http://www.geniuschargers.com/> com/
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm leaning toward the Dual Pro unit because it seems to have more LED indicators as to the charge condition of the battery. But, any comments or any other choices in quad chargers would be welcome.
> >
> >
> >
> > Capt. Mike
> >
> > http://biankablog. <http://biankablog.blogspot.com/> blogspot. com
> >
>
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