Thursday, May 27, 2010

Re: [Electric Boats] Ramblings about electric versus ICE (slightly OT)

 

When fellow sailors ask me about electric propulsion I tell them if your diesel is working I would not pull it out just to put in electric propulsion. But, eventually they will need to replace or rebuild it. My diesel was installed in 1986 had only 1800 hours on it. It worked fine until one day in 2006 it did not. It went from hard starting to no starting in six hours. I had maintained it with regular oil changes, filters winterizing etc... After it died when the mechanics bills and expenses started to approach $1000 I said enough! I was going to replace it with a new diesel but, I also started  to research the idea of electric propulsion. I went with electric propulsion and life has been much better as others of said in terms of maintenance and reliability. I sold my old diesel for $500 "as is". The fellow who bought it rebuilt himself. Even though he did all the work it still cost him $3500 in parts. The diesel lives on. But, I am so glad I went for electric propulsion. Yes, eventually something on my electric propulsion system will fail.  But, if I wanted too I could carry a complete spare of the entire system or primary componets on board and install them in an hour or two. Also in the future I'll be able to take advantage and upgrade to  new electric propulsion and battery technologies. You can't do that with an installed diesel engine. 
 
Capt, Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com

--- On Thu, 5/27/10, Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Electric Boats] Ramblings about electric versus ICE (slightly OT)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 8:48 AM

 
James,

First, I was specifically responding to Adam's statement that fuel economy was his primary concern and that his decreased fuel cost alone could offset the additional cost of installing a straight diesel electric drive system instead of dual petrol outboards. My post addressed only that point. All of the relevant assumptions were stated at the beginning of my post. I never made the "bizarre assumptions" (your words) that you attributed to me.

Second, Adam has been discussing diesel electric drives with no traction batteries, so I would assume that the maintenance, repair and ongoing fuel expenses that you describe would still be applicable.

You have provided good reasons to choose electric systems over hybrids, diesel electric or conventional ICE systems. You don't have to convince me about picking electric drive in some cases, I've converted multiple cars to electric and I am already converting my 30' ketch as well. But I chose to sell my electric cars and I won't convert my trimaran to electric. I'm guessing that even you still own and operate a gasoline powered vehicle because it's a better choice right now.

And you're right that the electric conversion of my ketch started with the failure of the diesel after only 35 years of service, though I doubt that an electric drive installed in the mid 1970's would have been as reliable and inexpensive to operate. And after 95 years of operation, my 1915 Model T is at least as reliable any of the electric cars I have owned. It doesn't even have a battery. ;)

Fair winds,
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, James Sizemore <james@...> wrote:
>
> If Eric goes by total cost for one trip around the globe and does not include rebuilds, parts, tuneup, oil changes hours of your time or the marines mechanics time. Then he might have something. But by the same logic most sails have never paid for themselves either. After you buy the sail, mast ,boom and the ground tackle, it would take a very very very long time to get a return on investment vs miles traveled vs gas, not counting any of the cost of a gas engine. But then your not including things like the value of not needing to have monetary daily outlay. Very important for someone who wants to cruse on a budget. But as most world sailers, and well throughout electric drive systems owners can tell you. It is nice to prepay for maintenance and fuel cost.
>
> But I am still not sure I'll sussed the "premise when evaluating the financial impact of the decision" That gas is less costly then electric for total return on investment. Eric makes some bizarre assumptions like gas engines are as reliable as electric and have similar maintenance costs and life spans. Once you factor in those differences I think electric does come out way ahead. I know my electric vehicle has been massively less expensive to use and operate then a similar gas one. In this case I am comparing an electric Vectrix to a Honda Silver-wing. The Vectrix cost about $1000 more new then a Silver-wing for similar performance scooters. In just a couple of years of use I have easily got that $1000 dollars back via zero maintenance cost and fuel savings and that is just in two years! I'll tell you as someone who has owned Gas scooters before, I'll never be going back to gas. It was far far more expensive, Your very first engine repair could easily make the difference in initial price!
>
> My second example is an Electric lawn mower I own, Way over ten years old zero gas or maintenance needed. Compare that to friends that have replaced there cheaper gas mowers at least one in that time frame, I have come out way ahead total cost wise.
>
> To sum up an electric motor is several orders of magnitude less complex then a gas motor with thousands of moving parts. And by all rights a good well designed electric system should be trouble free for years in not decades. How many post in this forum start out " I have a gas motor that is broke/ unreliable / on its last leg" Think about that! If you have to replace your gas motor every 6-7 years how cheap was it really?
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
MARKETPLACE

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.


Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Get real-time World Cup coverage on the Yahoo! Toolbar. Download now to win a signed team jersey!

.

__,_._,___

No comments:

Post a Comment