Harry , thanks for your post.
I've only been using about 3 litres a trip , because its winter , and my fishing trips are shorter , and I'm motor sailing , the headsails are helping a lot.
But as the daylight hours get longer , and it gets warmer , I'll spend more time out on the water.
The boat I am looking at buying is an old cray boat style , with a rear wheelhouse , 26 ft , and a gaff rig with electric winch assistance.
It has a 3 cylinder Perkins in it now , of 30 something horsepower , that I suspect has seen a lot of work.
Nanni have hybrid systems available now that I could use , but the lowest HP at this time is about 50 , which is more than I need , probably.
However I have been on a very similar sized motor sailer with a 50 hp Nanni , and it cruised very well .
Just off the top of my head , I'm thinking Nanni hybrid engine , 6 x6 volt batteries , and a couple of solar panels on the wheelhouse.
Just off the top of my head , I'm thinking Nanni hybrid engine , 6 x6 volt batteries , and a couple of solar panels on the wheelhouse.
I couldn't rely on solar panels to keep the batteries charged , if I come in one night on dusk , and go out again the next day at first light , I'm going to need a diesel to push the boat , and recharge the batteries , for a while.
The fishing grounds I'll be venturing out to soon are about 4 hours sailing each way. My current boat carries enough diesel for at least 20 hours motoring , I would expect the new boat (if I buy it) to have a good range too , it carries 200 litres of diesel.
It can get pretty blowy out the way I intend going , I've sailed it a few times , and motored it in the CG boat , and motor sailed it.
Funnily enough , Murphy's law usually means you always have the wind on the nose , but I've been in a "couta" boat surfing the last 20 kms or so here , it was just fantastic !.
If I buy the boat , and go hybrid , I believe I'll have plenty of room for batteries , but obviously , I won't get any more than necessary.
Probably I'm going to have to take the plunge , buy it and use it as it is for a while , see how it changes my fishing habits , and go on from there.
Regards Rob J.
From: Harry Wilkins <harry8136103219@hotmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 August, 2010 4:20:05 PM
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
Rob,
Life is full of risks. Our responsibility is to reduce the risks to an acceptable level.
You say you want a hybrid marine diesel setup, but later say you wont have petrol on-board. If you want a diesel/electric system along the lines of the Steyr system then you wont need a large battery bank because the diesel can recharge the batteries while it is pushing the boat.
If you are considering an electric drive that is not a hybrid, there are plenty of choices in electric drives that you can choose that are safer than a fossil fueled ICE. After you pick a motor system, you then need to calculate how many batteries you need to get the range you want. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing that you will probably WANT a small diesel genset to back-up your battery capacity for those days that you don't sail and have no decent solar power. Otherwise you run the risk you mentioned of being without electric power when you need it most. In any event you probably don't have anywhere near enough space to mount the number of solar panels you would need to directly power the boat motor or rapidly recharge the battery bank.
The usual sticking point is that as long as you have a functioning ICE pushing the boat, it probably doesn't make economic sense to switch to electric drive if you only average 3 liters of fuel per outing.
Good luck...
Harry Wilkins,
Research Vessel Carpe Sol
Good luck...
Harry Wilkins,
Research Vessel Carpe Sol
www.rvCarpeSol.com
Cell (813)610-3219
Office (813)968-0788
Fax (813)792-1162
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
From: dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:01:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
From: sirdarnell <sirdarnell@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 August, 2010 11:59:43 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
No one has developed the controller for this in smaller sizes. Also, I think in small systems the fuel savings don't make up for the costs of the electric drive system.
The trick is to use any excess energy in a useful and needed fashion while keeping the diesel generator running in it's ideal power band, usually 65-85% of full speed (rpms.) However, a possibility would be a smart battery controller with remote generator start up (you can find these on some websites selling to the off-grid market.) Assuming you have a good sized house battery so you can sit in a nice anchorage and enjoy nature without a generator constantly running... Use the house (not starting) battery drive your motor, but have the charge controller automatically turn on the generator when the batteries hit some level, say 50% dept of discharge. Now if you've an efficient, preferably DC generator, that can provide full power to the charger and the motor, we're set. When you hear the generator start or see the indicator light come on, if possible, adjust boat speed until the generator is running at 65-80% of maximum rpms.
BTW hybrids are not diesel-electrics or gas-electrics, unless they are what one company calls an extended range electric car. Since in a diesel-electric system the diesel doesn't attached to the drive train, not even in trains. (Except one Canadian brand that has diesel/electric hybrid train engine.)
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ewdysar@...> wrote:
>
> Sid,
>
> You're absolutely correct. Diesel-electric has been used for many decades and has proven to be more efficient than diesel alone. But there appears to be a problem of scale. Do you know of any specific examples of successful diesel-electric vehicles or vessels that weigh less than 100 tons?
>
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" <sirdarnell@> wrote:
> >
> > I keep seeing this. The military has been using diesel generators with electric engines since the 1930s (maybe earlier) to get more range. So it must be work. Not to mention trains, cruise ships, Ice breakers, freighters, etc.
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Michaels <nov32394@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Unless you are going to supplement the generator with solar and wind or shore power I think you will get less range than by just using a diesel engine.
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
>
------------------------------------
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To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
From: dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:01:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
I'd really like to have a hybrid marine diesel setup , with some solar panels also.
It would mean , like I have done over the last few weeks , when the arthritis is playing up too much to get the mainsail up , I can motor .
Over 2 hours of motoring , I probably wouldn't use 3 litres of diesel , so its no big deal.
But when I get out to the fishing grounds it would be nice to then switch to electric , and just troll around like I do now .
Trolling in engine mode , well its not as much fun as under sail , but over this winter , I'd only put the main up 1/2 the times I've gone out , and I go out at least once a week , over winter , every second day , or more , in the warmer months.
I won't have petrol or gas on the boat , and all electrical work is done by a very experienced marine electrician.
I work also in the radio room of the volunteer Coastguard , and all of our callouts have been involving petrol engines , fires and explosions , and electrical.
None with diesel engines failing.
Its pretty chilling , to get a "mayday" from a boat way out to sea , after a petrol fumes explosion and fire.
I'd love to have the best of both worlds , diesel , and electric.
My concern though , is we read of these big banks of batteries , and petrol generators , I presume on deck , what happens if they get swamped ?.
One of our last responses was to an epirb , set off by a boat owner after his boat was hit by a rogue wave , and was in real danger of sinking.
No electrics , no way of starting the outboard , no radio , no electric bilge pump.
Could someone please tell us how they have safeguarded against this occurrence ?.
Regards Rob J.
From: sirdarnell <sirdarnell@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 August, 2010 11:59:43 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
No one has developed the controller for this in smaller sizes. Also, I think in small systems the fuel savings don't make up for the costs of the electric drive system.
The trick is to use any excess energy in a useful and needed fashion while keeping the diesel generator running in it's ideal power band, usually 65-85% of full speed (rpms.) However, a possibility would be a smart battery controller with remote generator start up (you can find these on some websites selling to the off-grid market.) Assuming you have a good sized house battery so you can sit in a nice anchorage and enjoy nature without a generator constantly running... Use the house (not starting) battery drive your motor, but have the charge controller automatically turn on the generator when the batteries hit some level, say 50% dept of discharge. Now if you've an efficient, preferably DC generator, that can provide full power to the charger and the motor, we're set. When you hear the generator start or see the indicator light come on, if possible, adjust boat speed until the generator is running at 65-80% of maximum rpms.
BTW hybrids are not diesel-electrics or gas-electrics, unless they are what one company calls an extended range electric car. Since in a diesel-electric system the diesel doesn't attached to the drive train, not even in trains. (Except one Canadian brand that has diesel/electric hybrid train engine.)
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ewdysar@...> wrote:
>
> Sid,
>
> You're absolutely correct. Diesel-electric has been used for many decades and has proven to be more efficient than diesel alone. But there appears to be a problem of scale. Do you know of any specific examples of successful diesel-electric vehicles or vessels that weigh less than 100 tons?
>
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" <sirdarnell@> wrote:
> >
> > I keep seeing this. The military has been using diesel generators with electric engines since the 1930s (maybe earlier) to get more range. So it must be work. Not to mention trains, cruise ships, Ice breakers, freighters, etc.
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Michaels <nov32394@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Unless you are going to supplement the generator with solar and wind or shore power I think you will get less range than by just using a diesel engine.
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
>
------------------------------------
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