Neil:
I don't know why all the frustration. My EP system an ASMO MARINE Thoosa 9000 (now E-Clean Marine) came from Europe and has been virtually trouble free for six years now. It's based around the Lynch Electric Motor a product made in England. To me it was an easy to install and well designed turn key system that made the conversion a piece of cake and has made sailing much more pleasurable. Seems to me people in Europe were way ahead of us in the states.
Capt. Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com
From: Julian Webb <julian.proto@gmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Frustrated in UK
Hi Neil
I'm in the UK and just finished a 10 metre, twin screw, steel displacement hull (built in 1969) conversion in my spare time.
I thought it would be a simple process because as you say electric boats ruled the Thames end of the 19th and early 20th centuries and I wrongly assumed electric propulsion would have carried on at some level since then, but apart from a few brave souls who have gone largely unknown (Lynch did great work, all practical, measured and tabulated) there was very little to give me hope here.
The Germans of course have been selling small systems for years (Fischer Panda etc) and there's a smattering of others from Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia etc but the prices reflect they either don't sell too many or they still haven't recouped their development investment yet, or in Fischer Pandas case simply because they can!
A few places take an off the shelf 3 phase induction motor and bolt on a 24/48 volt dc inverter and charge 5 times the price, do be careful of "purpose built" over priced tech.
For pricing you can't beat a market with a large population and a still active DIY community ie supply and demand eg America.
There's a lot of great dribble down from electric car work being done in Germany which will produce some brilliant small, light and powerful stuff at good prices but this hasn't happened yet.
In the end as weight was not a consideration for me I went with standard 3 phase TEFC motors, off the shelf variable speed drives, Victron Quattros and a ton and a half of AGM batteries. Bullet proof and able to be fixed anywhere but the Quattros and a couple of purpose designed and machined props made it an expensive exercise. It was only because it was for myself my wife and going to be our home for half a year as we cruise through France and Germany that such extravagance was accommodated haha.
I have a electrical/process control background and there was/is so little at any kind of price available on this side I started sketching up my own system, a combination of available tech and purpose built "fill in the gaps" where necessary.
As with any harsh environment exercise, there are a million pitfalls (eg I don't give a dam how much poly you vacuum impregnate your windings with, a marine environment is no place for an open frame motor, not if I'm standing behind the warranty anyway) but if you're thorough it wouldn't be too hard to stitch a good system together.
The whole marine industry here seems to be tradition unhampered by progress, with half the things I came across being done better in a different industry.
Not cutting a long story short, if you need to make a living and not earn a bad reputation use proven gear that has backing, maybe filtered through your own personal, local experience and work on sourcing and testing gear from Germany and China (I've been getting stuff for 15-20 years from there and I still have to be cautious, especially with tech) with an aim to producing your own systems. Even if you don't sell them to anyone else you'll have your own profitable business.
My boat is now in Martigues, with me to follow in 3 weeks to finish her off (it's warmer there haha) but I would be keen to share the 9 million mistakes I've made and things I've learned in this exercise so far, and will have time in a couple of months to be part of something like this of you're keen. (email me direct on, julian@proto.eu.com)
I thought it would be a simple process because as you say electric boats ruled the Thames end of the 19th and early 20th centuries and I wrongly assumed electric propulsion would have carried on at some level since then, but apart from a few brave souls who have gone largely unknown (Lynch did great work, all practical, measured and tabulated) there was very little to give me hope here.
The Germans of course have been selling small systems for years (Fischer Panda etc) and there's a smattering of others from Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia etc but the prices reflect they either don't sell too many or they still haven't recouped their development investment yet, or in Fischer Pandas case simply because they can!
A few places take an off the shelf 3 phase induction motor and bolt on a 24/48 volt dc inverter and charge 5 times the price, do be careful of "purpose built" over priced tech.
For pricing you can't beat a market with a large population and a still active DIY community ie supply and demand eg America.
There's a lot of great dribble down from electric car work being done in Germany which will produce some brilliant small, light and powerful stuff at good prices but this hasn't happened yet.
In the end as weight was not a consideration for me I went with standard 3 phase TEFC motors, off the shelf variable speed drives, Victron Quattros and a ton and a half of AGM batteries. Bullet proof and able to be fixed anywhere but the Quattros and a couple of purpose designed and machined props made it an expensive exercise. It was only because it was for myself my wife and going to be our home for half a year as we cruise through France and Germany that such extravagance was accommodated haha.
I have a electrical/process control background and there was/is so little at any kind of price available on this side I started sketching up my own system, a combination of available tech and purpose built "fill in the gaps" where necessary.
As with any harsh environment exercise, there are a million pitfalls (eg I don't give a dam how much poly you vacuum impregnate your windings with, a marine environment is no place for an open frame motor, not if I'm standing behind the warranty anyway) but if you're thorough it wouldn't be too hard to stitch a good system together.
The whole marine industry here seems to be tradition unhampered by progress, with half the things I came across being done better in a different industry.
Not cutting a long story short, if you need to make a living and not earn a bad reputation use proven gear that has backing, maybe filtered through your own personal, local experience and work on sourcing and testing gear from Germany and China (I've been getting stuff for 15-20 years from there and I still have to be cautious, especially with tech) with an aim to producing your own systems. Even if you don't sell them to anyone else you'll have your own profitable business.
My boat is now in Martigues, with me to follow in 3 weeks to finish her off (it's warmer there haha) but I would be keen to share the 9 million mistakes I've made and things I've learned in this exercise so far, and will have time in a couple of months to be part of something like this of you're keen. (email me direct on, julian@proto.eu.com)
Cheers
On 10 Sep 2013 18:53, <gardennhome@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi All.This is my first post on your forum...I have completed 3 x electric boat conversions... 2 of which were cut down 'trolling motors' and 1 x with a 10kw 48 volt direct drive.Because of the lack of experience and knowledge in the UK, i ended up buying from the US. Evdrives.comThey were really helpful and delivered the whole kit.My general frustration is that there seems to be a large gap, between 55lb/86lb trolling motors and the next step, which is 5kw perms.Also, prices for the same kit varies enormously.I think most people in this group are from the US, where you have lots more experience and knowledge than us in the UK... We still see electric propulsion is a 'black art', but clearly we have been installing electric motors in remote control boats for ever, and the Victorians were doing it in the late 1800's.So, I'm looking advice as to where a 'full range' of motors, controls, etc can be purchased, as my current project is for a 12ft launch.. Which i have put a 86lb 24v on, but its just not very satisfactory, and a 1500w would be so much better on a direct prop shaft.Thank you...Neil
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