One other point guys, Power consumption! It seems that this is a big issue on the DIY sites and minimizing the power usage is a big factor.
Steve in Solomons MD
From:
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 7:04 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Homebrew BMS
I purchased a couple of PICAXE chips to use.
They are cheap and could have enough power for a BMS, but the use of a Raspberry Pi for bluetooth and display sound good.
Lots of options on the hardware side it looks like.
From: oak <oak_box@yahoo.com>
To: "
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 9:23:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Homebrew BMS
The Raspberry Pi is interesting.
* $25 is a reasonable price, considering all the stuff that's on the board.
* It's overkill for a lot of small control applications. But if cost is low enough, and development is easy, that's ok.
I'd have to play with it a bit to see which I really liked better.
Right now, I can go to Fry's or Radio Shack locally, and get Arduinos, and shields (application modules) for them.
It'll be interesting to see if the Raspberry Pi takes off and matures in the same way. If so, hopefully bare bones boards with lots of ports and not so many bells and whistles (leave off the HDMI support....) would be nice.
In my mind, if I can buy a bunch of Arduinos for $10/each, then they're cheap enough to be able to use a BUNCH of them, rather than having to code one massive project on a single board, and keep track of all the Inputs and outputs.
From: Dominic Amann <dominic.amann@gmail.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Homebrew BMS
I think I would go Raspberry Pi if I wanted a direct connected display. My thoughts for the module would be a first version that could log NMEA strings (charging progress, voltage, temperature, diagnostics etc) - so any NMEA capable display device could be connected - including a simple phone/tablet app.
That way, for a first version I don't need to be building display stuff, just focused on charging profiles and getting it done right.
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:40 AM, oak <oak_box@yahoo.com> wrote:
DISCLAIMER >>> If this topic starts to get tooooo boring to those who aren't interested in tinkering, please someone speak up and let us know that we should kindly take the discussion elsewhere.
There are bluetooth modules for Arduino - and they're actually pretty cheap.
However - I'm also very oldschool, and still am not using a smart phone (at least, the old phone my gf gave me is probably smarter and more capable than I use it for...)
So bluetooth is a possibility.
Temp probes would certainly be a future feature. But basic functionality will have to come first.
For people with Li batteries, where they have a BUNCH of individual cells that need to be monitored, the number of ports required (voltage, temp for each) will quickly start exceeding what's on a board. So at THAT point, the system will need to be extendable to several boards that report back to a central clearing house... :)
I think there are Arduinos with a BUNCH more ports, so maybe that would be the answer.
I'm still looking at one arduino for the basic monitoring and switching, and a second one for driving the display and data logger. But we'll see where that goes.
From: Steve Dolan <sdolan@scannersllc.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] Homebrew BMS
John,
How about Bluetooth ability. It would be nice to send the info to a tablet with Android down the line. I think the temp sensor would be nice on the batteries, maybe not all of them but a couple in the middle of the pack would be nice.
Steve in Solomons MD
From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto: electricboats@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of oak
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2013 9:38 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Homebrew BMS
I certainly have no objection to sharing whatever I can figure out...
I'm just wondering if there's anything I've left out.
Other than voltage, current, and plotting the power curve (and it *would* be nice to have GPS info too.....), is there anything else that needs to be tracked?
Is individual battery temp a significant factor? Or do I just need a temp sensor to shut down charging on hot summer days when it's over 100 F down below deck?
John
From: Dominic Amann <dominic.amann@gmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Homebrew BMS
John - it looks like we are working on pretty much the same thing. As I mentioned in my posts, I intend to release the software (as Wiring code - the Arduino language) as open source, and also hardware reference diagrams. I would be more than happy to collaborate with you or anyone else in developing this - if that is of any interest to you.
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 5:45 PM, oak <oak_box@yahoo.com> wrote:
To change the topic a little.....
Since I will have an Arduino micro-controller on board, with Analog inputs, and options for a small LCD display (16 characters by 2 lines), and possibly even an SD card - it should be easy to set up BMS functions.
QUESTION:
In an IDEAL world, what would you like to track on a BMS?
I'm assuming a voltage monitoring pin for each battery.
I'm also assuming a shunt voltage input for each bank.
One could toss in a temperature probe for good measure.
The controller has a minimal time function to count the number of seconds since it was last reset.
All of this can be dumped to the SD card to pull up and plot power profiles later - for both charging and running.
And ULTIMATELY, it would be REALLY cool to add a GPS module so I could plot speed vs. power!!! (but that'll be a ways down the road...)
Aside from battery voltage, current, time, and possibly temperature - is there anything else a BMS should monitor?
John
From: oak <oak_box@yahoo.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Battery Charging Basics - homebrew chargers
Mark,
From what I'm seeing, it looks like if you're going to provide a "constant current", you're basically providing a variable voltage supply that responds to the drop across a current limit resistor.
There doesn't seem to be an EASY way to support a wide range of voltage from 36 to 144V.
The microcontroller part isn't so bad. I've used a number of different ones in the past. Latest experience was with the Athena. I think the Arduino was coming out toward the end of when I was messing around with the Athena chips - but they were prohibitively expensive.
At this point in time, the Arduino system has matured a LOT. You can get a basic board for $30. With that, and a USB cable, you can download the IDE and start playing. The IDE (programming environment) is pretty simple to use - I won't say "EASY", but it's much better than I've seen in the past. Just a few quirks. The BIGGEST PAIN I've had with the Arduino is getting new laptops with Microsoft 7 to find and use the drivers. Microsoft - ARRRRRGH!!!!
Anyway, the Arduinos have at least 6 analog input ports (depending on which specific variant you get), and a number of different digital I/O ports.
They have a number of nice built in functions - like floating point math - that makes life simpler for things that you want to be user friendly. These controllers should work very nicely for charging and even battery monitoring.
John
From: Mark F <mark.internet@yahoo.ca>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Battery Charging Basics - homebrew chargers
I would like to help, if I can.
I would like to see a charge profile for NIMH batteries as well.
I think it would be good to be able to charge and monitor multiple banks.
It would be good to have a design that supports many voltages, IE 36,48,72,96,144.
I have some experience with microcontrollers from years ago.
What type of circuit would you use for the constant current supply?
Mark
From: Kirk McLoren <kirkmcloren@yahoo.com>
To: "electricboats@yahoogroups.com" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:32:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Battery Charging Basics - homebrew chargers
hard to get into trouble with a trickle charger.
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:41 AM, oak <oak_box@yahoo.com> wrote:
I hope this will be both fun and educational....
I'm trying to build a small, home brew battery charger. From what I see, it sounds like the primary difference between
Granted, if you're trying to do a FAST charge with lots of amps, there are a lot more details to worry about. But given the limits of readily available parts, I'm looking at 1-2 amps charging current - so I think I can simplify things a LOT.
It sounds like building a "constant current supply", attaching it to the battery (at 1-2 amps), and monitor the battery till the battery voltage comes up to the prescribed level, then disconnecting the current source.
According to the Battery University (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_the_lead_acid_battery), it looks like I can use a constant current source for the primary charging (stage 1), then maybe connect to a regulated power supply for the topping charge (stage 2), and then use a small microcontroller (Arduino) to monitor the voltage over the next few days / months, and occasionally turn on the "float charge" voltage for a couple of hours. (stage 3)
Does this sound reasonable?
For charging Lithium batteries, is there any difference, other than paying a
From the BatteryUniversity.com site, it sounds like charging Li batteries to 4.1V per cell, and stopping there will extend the life of the battery bank, and provide a bit more guardband to avoid problems.
Thoughts?
Thanks!
John
--
Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587
--
Dominic Amann
M 416-270-4587
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