T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] "Batteries Not Included" [1 Attachment]

[Attachment(s) from Julian Webb included below]

Hi James

- I've learned over the years that while naivety has it's charm, all you are going to attract in an open forum mentioning the topics you have is predictably, being told by those who know, that you don't.

- Especially as it appears you are at the early, steep part of the learning curve.

- So many important breakthroughs were made by loners trying what they shouldn't, that I personally have always tried something if it seemed like it "just might work", and would always encourage everyone to. If it doesn't work you should still learn a lot along the way.

- I have never tried the Roto-Verter myself but if you want to experiment why pay someone else to stitch it together for you. I attach a .pdf that shows it clearly.

- The "you can't get out more than you put in" line, is exactly what I was talking about in an earlier email. The phrase "in an isolated or closed system" common to energy Laws is itself a self limiter, as it assumes we can quantify, measure or even detect all forms or energy, and who is arrogant enough to state that they know all energies and their manifestations that our universe has to offer.

- Science now acknowledges Dark energy and Vacuum energy, but as yet we cannot measure or detect with any accuracy either of them, so who dares to be stupid enough to say that they are not affecting any given device or arrangement.

- The other favourite is to use misuse or misquote formulae, most times not on purpose, again it's that they are not properly understood by those who quote them.

- A common one is to use Energy equations without including a time component. This is incorrect and misleading as it apparently "proves" that a given system or circuit has limited energy.

- The most fun I've had for a long time was by chance, watching an Electrical Engineer at a University use Ohms, Faradays, Lenzes and Joules Laws and formulas to prove over unity in a system with high Back EMF. For an hour they tried everything they could to prove him wrong, but they simply could not, mainly because he was right, and pathetically they then asked him to leave. He had made them feel uncomfortable and insecure.

- After he was gone there was a round of laughter and comments of "I don't how he did it but it had to be a trick". It's just as well the Law makers, Faradays etc that they quote had bigger minds and smaller egos than those supposed teachers!

- Enough of my ramblings but you are "leading with your jaw" and on open forums you will not get anything but pity and sarcasm, if you're lucky.

Good luck

On 21 May 2013 12:55, Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@yahoo.com> wrote:

James,

Your questions have easy answers but you're not going to like them:

.... How much usable energy can be extracted from the rotoverter running on 120vac @3500 rpm and what size capacitors are best suited for this?

None, you can't get more out than you put in, PERIOD! And no capacitor, not even a flux capacitor, is going to change that. This is a classic perpetual motion setup and it simply doesn't work the way you think it should. I don't care what the guy on the website says. He's selling 21st century snake oil.

.... How much energy loss through dc/ac conversions
Doesn't matter because the rotoverter isn't going to give you any usable energy, only the losses of converting from 120V to 12V

.... How much usable energy can be extracted using Radient/Ambient collectors and what size do they need to be in relation to the vessel?
Very little and what you will get, if anything, will be measured in milliWatts if not microWatts. Won't be enough energy to run your stern light. There simply isn't that much energy to capture,unless your boat is under a high voltage transmission line and then you would be stealing from the utility. If there was enough energy floating around to be captured and used we would all probably get cancer.

.... The electrolysis effect on stainless steel, copper, aluminum in direct relation to their life span, also the energy collected per square foot in direct relation to the collection and storage of said energy.

Again, doesn't matter because you're only going to get a few Watts off something like this at most. This type of setup MIGHT be able to run your stern light but even that is doubtful and certainly not worth the effort and expense.

I know you don't want to believe what I'm telling you but it's true. If you like you can go and spend the time and money to prove it to yourself but you'll still get the same answers. You can't break the First Law of Thermodynamics and there's no free lunch.

Focus on trying to build a good hybrid solar powered electric drive system for old boats. That could be a ticket to success if you do it well because people get very excited about solar boats. The idea of a never ending free solar gas tank is very seductive, it works, and people will buy it if it becomes available at reasonable prices.

Carter Quillen, P.E.

www.shipofimagination.com

From: james4078 <james4078@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] "Batteries Not Included"

Thanks for your input Willi
There is no answers to the questions that I am asking.
That is the main reason for this venture, to get some questions answered.
As the video states "we know how much solar panels produce per square foot, How much a generator produces"
The world as a whole has been pumping RF energy into the atmosphere for over 100 years. Tesla figured out how to tap into that.
The US Navy has a bunch of data on the electrolysis effect to their vessels.
Extracting excess energy out of the winding of an electric motor through capacitor and resistors maybe new but there is not much data on this subject as a few other that I am working on.
Any way I am looking to get some questions answered.
If you have some answers that I already don't know... I'd love to hear them.

As for the math.... It can't be done with missing data.
The basics we know:
.... How much energy needed to push a boat through the water at hull speed. (48 vdc @ 200 amps)
.... How much energy needed to run a 8kw generator @3500 rpm
.... How much energy per square foot achieved from PV cells
Questions we don't have answers to:
.... How much usable energy can be extracted from the rotoverter running on 120vac @3500 rpm and what size capacitors are best suited for this?
.... How much energy loss through dc/ac conversions
.... How much usable energy can be extracted using Radient/Ambient collectors and what size do they need to be in relation to the vessel?
.... The electrolysis effect on stainless steel, copper, aluminum in direct relation to their life span, also the energy collected per square foot in direct relation to the collection and storage of said energy.
These are some of the major questions I am faced with.... If you have answers... I'd love to hear them.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "stmbtwle" <stmbtwle@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry James but I have to agree with Julian. Have you done the math? If you want to charge your batteries by plugging into shore power you may have a nice electric boat, but you won't be able to fit enough solar panels or a big enough windmill to provide the power you need. "Rotoverter", "Ambient energy", "Radiant energy", "Electrolytic energy" all go in the same file with "Perpetual Motion".
>
> Folks don't like to think about it, but there's a REASON our electric utilities haven't already switched over to those devices.
>
> Willie
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "james4078" <james4078@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the words of wisdom.
> > I have a few emails that I would rather soon forget but that comes with the territory.
> > I was kind of hoping to get a better reaction from this group than some of the others.
> > With 3845 members you would think that most would like to get some new information on a project such as this.
> > Well I will be glad to hear from you and as always do what you can when you can.
> > Thanks for the help
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Julian Webb <julian.proto@> wrote:
> > >
> > > hi james
> > >
> > > - just had a read of your crowd funding page, and my first piece of advice
> > > is to be very careful of your wording there, here and everywhere.
> > >
> > > - i'm not sure what your actual energy source/plan/generating/harnessing
> > > ideas are but unless you want to be written off, ridiculed, abused or at
> > > best condescendingly lectured to, don't ever use the word "energy" in the
> > > same sentence with other words such as "alternative", "unlimited" or heaven
> > > forbid "free".
> > >
> > > - irrespective of what you meant, it will be assumed you that you have
> > > either never heard of newton or maxwell or you just didn't get it, and you
> > > will incur the wrath of educated non-thinkers who are so eager to show what
> > > they learned at school that they won't wait to ask you the how or what of
> > > what you meant or are doing but will trip over themselves at the
> > > opportunity make themselves sound smart by making you sound stupid.
> > >
> > > - open minded, unbiased, ego free help with anything "a bit different" is
> > > hard to find and if i can be of any help please email me on
> > > everhopeful@ and if i can't i'll try to point you somewhere that
> > > can.
> > >
> > > cheers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 19 May 2013 03:53, james4078 <james4078@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greetings from Florida everyone.
> > > > I've been a member of this group for some time now and I try to help out
> > > > when I can.
> > > > Now I am asking for all your help.
> > > > As there is not much technical data available for us electric boaters I am
> > > > assembling a project that will provide much needed data.
> > > > I have been working alone on this for close to 3 years and now I want to
> > > > get it finished and create a data bank of some sort for all electric boater
> > > > out there.
> > > > Here is a link to our crowd funding project, once done all data will be
> > > > readily available "open source"
> > > > http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/alternative-energy-source--2/x/3222114
> > > >
> > > > I will also be looking for some technical expertise for those that want to
> > > > offer that.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > >
> > > > project #2
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/547817076/pic/list
> > > > project #1
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/1200862879/pic/list
> > > >
> > > > It has been too long between projects
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > www.proto.eu.com ltd
> > >
> > > unit 9 Somerton Industrial Estate, Belfast, BT3 9JP, U.K.
> > > Phone; (+44) 02895 811251 - Mobile; (+44) 07427 696 796 - Fax;
> > > (+44) 0871 9898296
> > > Company number; NI067673 VAT number; GB975375474
> > >
> >
>

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