My experience is very similar to Eric's. When I pulled out the diesel and converted to electric propulsion six years ago it was about a wash cost wise with a new diesel. Perhaps a little less. Where I have saved and continue to save is in maintenance costs and costs of my time. This is because my electric propulsion system requires very little maintenance. No oil, anti freeze, zinc changes. No winterizing. Having an AGM battery bank also helps over flooded batteries as would Lithium batteries. The AGM bank has been working well as I begin my sixth season with EP. There are additional savings in that I can also use my propulsion bank to help supply additional energy when at anchor. For example when I use my laptop I often use a 48 to 12 volt converter to power it off the EP bank. Since the 48 volt battery bank is just sitting there I don't have to worry about draining down the 12 volt house battery bank. I let it continue to power my refrigeration system, lights and other essential boat needs. The 48 volt then gets recharged with my wind turbine and solar panels rather quickly. So I have not felt the need to increase the house battery bank size. Also most of the time I never have to fire up the Honda 2000 generator except after a day of cruising where I had to use some additional EP. In short my experience is the savings add up in the operating costs of an EP system not necessarily in the installation. But, I think a lot of people don't consider that when they are trying to decide if EP is the way to go.
Capt Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com
From: Bud Elkin <bud.elkin@gmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] The cost of going electric
Eric,
Great summation!!! I went solar for several reasons: one, I had the room on top of my houseboat to hold plenty of solar panels(6)-280wh, two, I got the solar panels for around $210 a piece, and 12 deep cycle batteries for $50 a piece. I built my outboard motor from an old 1965 Evinrude with a A00 4009 DC motor that I had laying around. Powering or re-powering a boat is expensive whether buying sails or motors; no argument.
bud..
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Eric <ewdysar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi John,
While I understand the pocketbook perspective, there isn't a really good way around it. I had the same problem when I realized that my Catalina 22 needed new sails, they cost more than I had spent on the entire boat. I guess that I could have made my own from Tyvek and duct tape (anybody trying to drive their boat with a 500W blender motor?), but let's be real. I once had a truck where new tires cost more than the truck was worth, but I still needed tires.
I have notived that many people end up here because their boat needs a new engine, a new gas or diesel engine is expensive and they figure that why not go electric, it must be cheaper, right?
I'm not sure why anyone would think that, because it's not true in any other electric vs. gas product. Let's look at a couple of gasoline and battery powered products. Don't get distracted by corded appliances, your boat would need a reallllly long cord.
Cordless electric mower = $300 - $400
Similar gas powered mower = $150 - $300
Electric standup scooter = $500 - $1200 (not the toy versions)
Similar gas powered scooter = $400 - $1000
Electric Nissan Leaf = $28,000
Similar Nissan Versa = $15,000
For each of these, the gas version is typically faster, more powerful and has much greater range.
So why do we think that a repower with electric should be less expensive than a new gas or diesel engine?
In my case, the electric repower installed by me cost almost exactly the same as if I had installed a new diesel engine myself. For me,it was well worth it, for another boater, it might be a horrible idea. In fact, after converting my 30' ketch to electric, I had to replace the outboard on my 27' trimaran. I wanted to go electric, but a new outboard was much lighter, more powerful, cheaper, easier, easily sourced, had the range required by offshore racing regulations, etc. etc. The trimaran got a new 4 stroke outboard, and I'm already a strong supporter of electric conversions.
Honestly, did anybody here get into boating because it is so inexpensive? Sure, many of us operate right at the edge of our ability to spend, me included. I never want to spend more than I have to, but sometimes trying to save money can cost me more in the long run. And my personal safety is priceless....
Electric is just another drive option, it is not a universal panacea. Installed for the right reasons in the right use case, they are brilliant. Otherwise, they can be too much of a compromise.
Just something to think about....
Eric
Marina del Rey, CA
PS. Yes, I had a friend that made sails for a Chrysler 23 from Tyvek and duct tape, and they worked.... kind of. IMHO, the money that I've spent on sails (and my electric conversion) has been well worth it.
--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, oak <oak_box@...> wrote:
>
> Eric,
> Â
> While I can "intellectually" appreciate the wisdom of all that you're saying, my pocketbook doesn't want to hear it...  <grin>
> Â
> Seriously, I get what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense.
> You make a good point about the sizing of the props on the trolling motors. I can tell you that the prop on my Torqeedo 4R is BIG compared to any trolling motor, and definitely even any kind of outboard up to the same size. If you believe the Torqeedo literature, they specifically designed the prop on that motor for the electric outboard application, and it seems to do a good job (though I'm anxious to get more experience with it).
> Â
> This afternoon, I came across the Minn-Kota Riptide that has dual motor units and is rated at 160 pounds thrust - close to what the Torqeedo 4R is, and at 24V (I didn't see anything that listed how many amps it would draw).
> Â
> At 1/2 to 1/3 the price - it's very appealing.
> But again, your points about prop size, motor speed, etc, are all well taken.
> Â
> I happen to already have the Torqeedo 4R that I will experiment with on the C-22. But if I could afford to get down to a 24V system instead of a 48V system, it becomes much more reasonable to get a single 24V lithium pack than to have to buy two. If only money weren't an object.
> Â
> The unfortunate reality there is that I can easily spend 3x the price of the boat on the outboard and batteries!
> So yes, there are tradeoffs to be made. And fortunately - in MY case - I don't have to go terribly far on battery power.  It would be really nice to be able to cruise 2-3 hours.  Typical case (at least if I was sailing) would probably be 30 min. to less than an hour, and a good amount of that could be at reasonably low power.
> Â
> I really wish I had the spare disposible cash to buy one of each of several and try them all out!  If the 80 foot pound motor was enough to push the boat around a little bit, it would be fun to have the Torqeedo 2.0 as the main engine, and the trolling motor in a locker as a backup. Then it would be fun to have the 24V lithium as the main battery, probably with two cheap FLA batteries as a standby bank that I knew would get me at least 30-60 min at low speed to get me home if I exhausted the primary bank...
> Â
> I need to buy more lottery tickets...
> Â
> John
> (aka "oak_box", but not really - just John.)
>
>
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