T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] "Batteries Not Included"

I have followed the attempts at over unity and all the so called successes used meters calibrated for sine waves in digital circuits.

Most claim "new science" whilst not understanding the "old science" they are discrediting.

Any innovation will extend the old science. It will improve our understanding and will be understood.

There is a lot of room to improve understanding.

In my pamphlet http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009TZSAWW

click on look inside and at least read about capacitors and the error even EDN subscribed to in a recent article.

Kirk

From: Julian Webb <julian.proto@gmail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2013 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] "Batteries Not Included"

Hi Willie

- I'm not meaning to be rude with this next sentence, but if you "try" something and do it incorrectly it doesn't mean the theory is not right, it means you're not, and worse you're going o become a wonderful validator for the "I told you so" brigade.

- If you tried to make something as simple as a blender without the correct plans or help how successful do you think it would be? That should not mean the concept of a blender was wrong or that we should stick to knives.

- As I said, although I haven't tried the Roto-Verter, I know simply hooking a motor to a generator and hoping one will run the other is not the way that you're supposed to do it, so no surprises that it didn't work for you.

- I'm not saying it does work, just from the very little I've heard there's a bit more to it than that.

- Electrolysis is something I got involved in, as a friend of mine, tried it, same results as you, asked for help, got laughed at and lectured and had laws quoted at him to prove it is impossible to get more gas energy out than electrical energy in (to keep it simple) and by those laws it didn't work.

- Because I had an R&D company and did product development and had meters, scopes etc and was used to setting up a logical test program he asked me to have a look and see if there was anything he had done that was obviously wrong. There wasn't, not by the basic splitting of water stuff I (and all of us) had been taught in high school.

- I read the blurb that he had bought on line and it mentioned something that pinged my imagination, and something that as he had no experience in such things, did not consider to be important.

- With the experience I had had in pump systems, I had seen mechanical resonance at it's best and worst and fully appreciated that a small amount of energy input can produce a disproportionate amount of energy appearing in a system if the parameters are right, and I don't mean by simple hydraulic multiplication.

- I have also built an induction heater and have pondered the ability (of a close coupled coil to load system) to achieve roughly 5 times the heating effect of a resistive electrical heating system drawing the same current. Of course, this too is "not possible" and yet anyone can buy or make one and if built and operated properly can get the same results.

- These of course use an electrically resonant circuit.

- To cut a long story short unless the importance of electrical and mechanical resonance in systems is appreciated, (which has no place, constant or symbol in any traditional calculations or formulas that I have ever seen) they cannot be understood or replicated.

- Once we made (after a lot more reading) a system that paid attention to those details we trebled the gas output which was over the theoretical using "normal" calculations, and as I understand it there are ways (untried by me) of preparing the metal tubes that increases output even further.

- Just because a few snake oil salesmen jumped on bandwagons and sold devices that didn't live up to their over-the-top claims doesn't mean that the whole idea is wrong, just that they are.

- Just because Mythbusters buys a shonky DIY kit/plans and also make it improperly without understanding what they're doing also doesn't mean that the whole idea is wrong, just that they are.

- If we don't understand what we're doing we need someone around who can steer us in the right direction, help or teach us, but if that topic is slightly outside mainstream you'll get nothing positive, and surely anyone who is inquisitive and curious enough to want to try something should be encouraged, as who knows what they might come up with.

- So much has been discovered, even in out time, by people doing what they shouldn't, usually in desperation as all the things they should have done had produced nothing.

Cheers

On 23 May 2013 01:03, stmbtwle <stmbtwle@yahoo.com> wrote:

James when I was a teenager I built a "rotoverter" out of a couple 3v electric motors. I coupled the shafts together so one motor would spin the other as a generator (DC motors can be used as generators) then I wired them together so the generator output would drive the motor, which would spin the generator, which would drive the motor, which would spin the generator, and so on. Then I ran it up to speed with a couple dry cells to get it started, and removed the batteries. It kept running.... for a few seconds. Electrical resistance, heat and friction killed it. I tried the electrolysis thing too, with a piece of aluminum and a piece of copper in sea water; that worked just about as well. Nikolai Tesla (a whole lot smarter than I am) tried the "radiant energy" thing. From what I understand it had promise but you have to have a transmitter (which requires fuel) and the whole thing is horribly inefficient. To be honest I think you'd have better luck with Magick.

There IS a "radiant energy" system that DOES work and it's well proven; I have three; one actually drives one of my boats. Another keeps the lights on and the beer cold on my houseboat. Some people call it "solar", but you could also call it "fusion". The gods provide the radiant energy, you just collect it all week and store it in a battery, to be used when you want to play.

My suggestion: Find an old aluminum pontoon boat (they're big, light, and don't require much power). Strip it down and build a rack overhead that will hold as many solar panels as you can fit within the dimensions of the boat. Install enough batteries to run your motor for a reasonable time, hook the panels up and park it in the sun for a week. By Saturday you'll have your "radiant energy boat". Some paint and foo-foo and you'll have a nifty rig that actually WORKS. Mine does; it's just a canoe with a trolling motor, but I haven't had to paddle or charge the batteries since I installed my "energy collector". I just park it in the sun, and it's ready to go when I am.

Even the Wright Brothers did things one step at a time, and they were ultimately successful.

Willie

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "james4078" <james4078@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your input guys
> If history teaches us anything it is truly that there is an answer to any and all questions, no matter how difficult they may be.
> Perpetual motion is not something I'm looking to do.
> I'm just trying to harness the energy that is there and funnel it to be usable for my situation.
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Carter Quillen <twowheelinguy@> wrote:
> >
> > I have to agree with your contention to round file the perpetual motion stuff but you can push a boat at pretty close to hull speed realtime off the sun with a full solar canopy. Despite a looong list of inefficiencies such as a shunt motor, lead acid batteries, spinning a big diesel driveline including a V-drive, and a 20 ton displacement, the Arc still works pretty good. Better than I thought it would actually.
> >
> > With lighter hulls, better motors, and elimination of the extra driveline components you have in a parallel hybrid configuration, solar powered boats can perform very well. This has been demostrated by a lot of other solar boats besides the Arc too.
> >
> > While James may be a bit sidetracked on a unicorn hunt, his basic idea of retrofitting old broken boats with alternative energy drive systems is sound. It does work and the idea of a never ending gas tank is very appealing. The techology only keeps getting better and I think you will be seeing a lot more solar electric boats on the water in the future.
> >
> > Carter
> > http://www.shipofimagination.blogspot.com/
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: stmbtwle <stmbtwle@>
> > To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] "Batteries Not Included"
> >
> >
> > Sorry James but I have to agree with Julian. Have you done the math? If you want to charge your batteries by plugging into shore power you may have a nice electric boat, but you won't be able to fit enough solar panels or a big enough windmill to provide the power you need. "Rotoverter", "Ambient energy", "Radiant energy", "Electrolytic energy" all go in the same file with "Perpetual Motion".
> >
> > Folks don't like to think about it, but there's a REASON our electric utilities haven't already switched over to those devices.
> >
> > Willie
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "james4078" <james4078@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the words of wisdom.
> > > I have a few emails that I would rather soon forget but that comes with the territory.
> > > I was kind of hoping to get a better reaction from this group than some of the others.
> > > With 3845 members you would think that most would like to get some new information on a project such as this.
> > > Well I will be glad to hear from you and as always do what you can when you can.
> > > Thanks for the help
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Julian Webb <julian.proto@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > hi james
> > > >
> > > > - just had a read of your crowd funding page, and my first piece of advice
> > > > is to be very careful of your wording there, here and everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > - i'm not sure what your actual energy source/plan/generating/harnessing
> > > > ideas are but unless you want to be written off, ridiculed, abused or at
> > > > best condescendingly lectured to, don't ever use the word "energy" in the
> > > > same sentence with other words such as "alternative", "unlimited" or heaven
> > > > forbid "free".
> > > >
> > > > - irrespective of what you meant, it will be assumed you that you have
> > > > either never heard of newton or maxwell or you just didn't get it, and you
> > > > will incur the wrath of educated non-thinkers who are so eager to show what
> > > > they learned at school that they won't wait to ask you the how or what of
> > > > what you meant or are doing but will trip over themselves at the
> > > > opportunity make themselves sound smart by making you sound stupid.
> > > >
> > > > - open minded, unbiased, ego free help with anything "a bit different" is
> > > > hard to find and if i can be of any help please email me on
> > > > everhopeful@ and if i can't i'll try to point you somewhere that
> > > > can.
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 19 May 2013 03:53, james4078 <james4078@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Greetings from Florida everyone.
> > > > > I've been a member of this group for some time now and I try to help out
> > > > > when I can.
> > > > > Now I am asking for all your help.
> > > > > As there is not much technical data available for us electric boaters I am
> > > > > assembling a project that will provide much needed data.
> > > > > I have been working alone on this for close to 3 years and now I want to
> > > > > get it finished and create a data bank of some sort for all electric boater
> > > > > out there.
> > > > > Here is a link to our crowd funding project, once done all data will be
> > > > > readily available "open source"
> > > > > http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/alternative-energy-source--2/x/3222114
> > > > >
> > > > > I will also be looking for some technical expertise for those that want to
> > > > > offer that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > >
> > > > > project #2
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/547817076/pic/list
> > > > > project #1
> > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/photos/album/1200862879/pic/list
> > > > >
> > > > > It has been too long between projects
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > www.proto.eu.com ltd
> > > >
> > > > unit 9 Somerton Industrial Estate, Belfast, BT3 9JP, U.K.
> > > > Phone; (+44) 02895 811251 - Mobile; (+44) 07427 696 796 - Fax;
> > > > (+44) 0871 9898296
> > > > Company number; NI067673 VAT number; GB975375474
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>