Wednesday, September 6, 2017

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Lots of questions from Central Florida

 

Well .. yeah, well no.
LiFePo4 batteries, shipping, typically about 100W/kh, in energy density.

Lion batteries in energy dense configs, tsla, typically about 200 W/kg, shipping, and 380 Wh/kg, more energy dense not shipping.
Being made now.

It is quite right a lifepo4 battery is less likely to thermal-runaway.
But it is also 2 times less energy dense, soon 4, soon 6 times.
This does not really matter in a boat.

Even the lifepo4 batteries are as you said 3x better than anything else lead/agm, so much smaller, more dense.
What matters, really, is cost.

Today, typical "marine" solutions with LiFepo4 batteries retail == 700$ / kWh.
This will drop about 50% within 12-18 months.
This will drop about 50% within 12-18 months.
This will drop about 50% within 12-18 months.
In about 54 months, energy-dense lion batteries will retail == 100-150 Wh/kg.

The driver is money.
Because at 200-300 Wh/kg, electric cars everywhere become inevitable.
We are there now.
At 400Wh/trucks, delivery vans and trucks, short-haul aeroplanes.
At 500Wh, all aeroplanes go electric and most short-haul shipping. Perhaps even long haul.

We are about 3-8 years out from 500Wh/kg, worst case, if none of approx 20 real technical developments ever prove out in scale/cost/longevity.

Let me explain.
80% of all the worlds driving, transport, cars, trucks, are not in USA.

Global fuel prices == 1.2€/l, global avg., == 7-8$ / US gallon.
Global electricity prices == 0.11€ /kWh avg.
But nighttime charge rates for EVs == 3-4 cents, 0.03 - 0.04€/kWh.
Sometimes 2 cents.

A 100 kWh charge == 60 l diesel, costs == 4 €, the diesel costs 72€.
For approx 80% of all the world.
And about 50-70% of the oil/gas/diesel is spent in exploration/drilling/refining/transporting.
About 15-25% of electricity is lost in generation/transport/getting into a battery.


On 05/09/2017 22:34, Randy Ramirez randy.ramirez@sbcglobal.net [electricboats] wrote:
The more stable LiFePO4 batteries tend to chemically neutralize internally with too high or too low voltages, like part of them permanently goes to sleep each time the voltage is out of bounds.  Charge a tiny bit too much, or drain too much, and your $4,000 battery pack acts like a $3,000 pack, then a $2,000 pack, then a $500 pack...  
The energy density of LiFePO4 is about 3 times greater than Lead Acid batteries, so if a spear gun pokes a LiFePO4 battery, it will be 3 times more exciting than if a spear gun poked a Lead Acid battery.  But then gasoline/diesel have a 100 times higher energy density, so the same spear gun accident (particularly a fl! aming spear gun!) would be 100 times more disappointing.

--   -hanermo (cnc designs)  

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Posted by: Hannu Venermo <gcode.fi@gmail.com>
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