[electricboats] throttle control

hi all, 

over the past years i've been reading up on the conversion of my small canal-boat in Amsterdam. i recently bought a second hand kit, not sure if it all supposed to work (together).

i do have the ME1003 motor working on the Alltrax SPM48400 and the throttle. this is a throttle with a middle stand, so likely for marine. the alltrax does not support a reverse itself, some external relais needs to be added. if connected to the alltrax it just sees one end of the throttle as 0 and the other and as 100%, the middle (neutral) about 50%

 

this is my problem.

the trottle, unbranded, has three wires. if i measure resistance i measure between 0 and about 5.5ohm with one of the contacts (and either of the other contacts), between the other contacts nothing changes when i move the handle. 

What can i do to use this throttle on this controller? anything more i can measure? i was hoping one of the wires would give some value is it is one or the other side of the middle - does that exsists, how do i measure this.

anyway, hope you can help me,

thanks

elwin

 

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Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

Defender is a reliable vendor. I would buy my RIBS and motors for my Island Pilots from them. 

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Re: [electricboats] Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?

I added a cheap meter from eBay or Amazon, mostly to fill the hole where the old meter was. It accepts 12-80V I believe so I just added a small lead from the contactor so it ticks away anytime the key is turned on. Not perfect as it shows time regenerating as well but I guess that's wear and tear also.

 

It's something like this.

 

 

 

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Re: [electricboats] Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?

I agree with Myles that there may not be a practical reason for needing an hour meter.

But I do think it would be a very nice to have feature.

On my diesel boat, I track the hours and fuel levels in my log.  It's nice to be able to reference for other (not necessarily engine related) reasons.

And it's awesome bragging rights.   It's hard to say how many miles you've cruised.  But you can at least say how many hours you've put on your system.

It might also be nice for battery life.   At 0 hours, you installed new batters.  At XXX hours, you observed the battery capacity was at ZZ percent, compared to new.   At YYY hours, controller / battery / cable / motor failed for whatever reason and was replaced.

Necessary - no.

Nice to have - I think so.

John

On Wednesday, July 17, 2024 at 11:22:06 AM CDT, Myles Twete via groups.io <matwete=comcast.net@groups.io> wrote:

I converted my boat to electric in 2003 and have been active in this forum, its predecessor on Yahoo Groups (which I owned/moderated for a very long time) and on the ElectricBoating forum (which I started) before that.  I haven't used any hour meter on my system.

It took 20 years before I had a controller die---think it was a year ago---and that was likely due to ignoring weed pileup on my prop versus having hundreds or thousands of hours on the controller.

 

For those few of us who still run their boat with brush motors, there's a case to be made for having an hour meter in order to estimate time for replacing brushes (I've gone thru 3 or 4 brush sets over the past 21 years).  Having said that, perhaps a better estimator of brush wear though would be to track AH or KWH since run time alone doesn't reflect the stressors (current, speed and temperature) that work together to cause the brushes to wear.

 

-MT

 

 

On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:23 PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN via groups.io <tvinypsi=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?  If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI

Re: [electricboats] Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?

I converted my boat to electric in 2003 and have been active in this forum, its predecessor on Yahoo Groups (which I owned/moderated for a very long time) and on the ElectricBoating forum (which I started) before that.  I haven't used any hour meter on my system.

It took 20 years before I had a controller die---think it was a year ago---and that was likely due to ignoring weed pileup on my prop versus having hundreds or thousands of hours on the controller.

 

For those few of us who still run their boat with brush motors, there's a case to be made for having an hour meter in order to estimate time for replacing brushes (I've gone thru 3 or 4 brush sets over the past 21 years).  Having said that, perhaps a better estimator of brush wear though would be to track AH or KWH since run time alone doesn't reflect the stressors (current, speed and temperature) that work together to cause the brushes to wear.

 

-MT

 

 

On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:23 PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN via groups.io <tvinypsi=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?  If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI

Re: [electricboats] Has Anyone Put an Hour Meter in the Electric Propulsion system?

Hello Thomas,

Most motor controllers have an hour counter built-in. I am using DMC SuperSigma 2 https://www.dmcde.de/ controllers, and they do this tracking, with the information accessible with their handheld controller.

What is the use of it? Not much really, as unlike gas powered motors where there is a regular maintenance schedule to adhere to, we do not have this issue on an electric propulsion.

Jerome

On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:23 PM THOMAS VANDERMEULEN via groups.io <tvinypsi=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Has anyone out there seen fit to put an hour meter in their electric propulsion system?  If so, where amonng the functional circuits did you put it?
Just curious to hear any thinking on the usefulness of an hour meter.
Thanks!
[-tv]
Thomas VanderMeulen
Plainwell, MI

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Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

Bobkart,

Thanks for the information.  I was not aware of them before, but will seriously consider them now.

 

Pat

 

 

From: electricboats@groups.io On Behalf Of bobkart
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2024 6:38 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

 

Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).

On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.  Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).

At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.  There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.

My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.  Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.

Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

I much prefer dealing with local businesses. Very useful when you need service. Worth a few $ extra. 

I bought an ePropulsion 1.0 from Annapolis Hybrid Marine. I met them at the US Sailboat Show. They were very helpful in advising me: brought a demo motor to my house (across the Bay) and worked overtime to get what I needed in a time of severe supply chain SNAFUs. 

/

Greg DeCowsky ☠ 

Sent from my AyePhone® 

On Jul 8, 2024, at 18:42, Glenn Holland via groups.io <gholland1=nc.rr.com@groups.io> wrote:



Motors

Guys,  There's something that occurred early this year that bares keeping in mind.  Torqeedo was bought by Yamaha.  Just sayin...keep your eyes and ears OPEN.  Glenn, Torq and Yammer owner.

---

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of bobkart <couch45@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2024 6:37 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

 

Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).

On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.  Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).

At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.  There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.

My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.  Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.

Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

Motors

Guys,  There's something that occurred early this year that bares keeping in mind.  Torqeedo was bought by Yamaha.  Just sayin...keep your eyes and ears OPEN.  Glenn, Torq and Yammer owner.

---

From: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io> on behalf of bobkart <couch45@msn.com>
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2024 6:37 PM
To: electricboats@groups.io <electricboats@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

 

Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).

On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.  Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).

At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.  There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.

My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.  Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.

Re: [electricboats] Torqeedo

Back when I was deciding on an electric outboard motor (2021), I found Torqeedo to be overpriced compared to what I settled on (ePropulsion).

On the ePropulsion website you can find approved dealers near you.  Tiny Boat Nation is an approved dealer (for example).

At TBNation.net, I'm seeing $3K for the Navy 3 and $3.6K for the Navy 6.  There will of course be another few hundred dollars for the controller.

My Navy 6 has worked flawlessly on my four-meter power cat.  Through last year I have 40+ trips, 500+ miles, 80+ hours on the motor.

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[electricboats] Torqeedo

Hello everyone,
It's been a while since I've checked in here.  About 15 years ago, I installed a Torqeedo Cruise 4 on my 24 foot pontoon and have been very pleased with the results.  I am now interested in doing a very similar project and wanted to get input from you guys. I see prices have risen a lot, but so has inflation.  $5,000ish is what I am expecting (but less would be nice).  That's just for the motor as I already have a 48v bank of LiFePO4's. 

So, my questions are:
Is Torqeedo still a good choice?  
Where should I buy one?  A local marina?  I don't see much on Torqeedo's site as far as places that stock them.  I do see ads for places like "Defender Marine" but I don't have any experience with them.  I feel funny putting a $5,000 item in an online shopping cart and pressing "buy now" without getting some guidance first.  (By the way, I'm in northeastern Ohio on an small inland chain of lakes.  (There are a number of marinas near by, but none seem to be Torqeedo dealers or have any interest in electric motors.) 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or ideas,
Pat
  

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Re: [electricboats] Electric Sailboat Ride

Hi All, 

Extending my offer (again) to anyone interested in checking out an electric sailboat. It will either be on my boat, an O'Day 31 (details below) or an O'Day 35. The 35' has an a Waterworld 10kw direct drive system. Both boats have a custom aluminum solar bimini with two Maxeon 475 watt panels. These panels charge the batteries fully in two sunny days or while using the boat add about 50% range. While my boat has always been only solar powered, this amount of power is a real game changer. 

Boat is located in Atlantic Highlands, NJ.

O'day 31

8.1kw brushless motor

10.2kwh lifepo4 

Orion JR BMS 

Victron monitoring 

Brunton Autoprop

Matt Foley 

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

ABYC Certified Marine 

Electrical Technician 

On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 11:39:50 AM EDT, Matt Foley <matt@sunlightconversions.com> wrote:

Hi Ken, 

See attached. 

Not proportional. I imagine this is partly due to the Autoprop maximizing thrust at any rpm. 

Matt Foley 

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

On Thursday, October 28, 2021, 04:40:26 PM EDT, Ken Winokur <kenwphoto@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you track your rpm and did it remain constant as the speed increases?

On Oct 28, 2021, at 2:01 PM, Matt Foley <matt@sunlightconversions.com> wrote:



See attached

Finally getting around posting the stats. Missing some data points, but you will get the point. Note, the wattage measurement on the 1803/Curtis setup are from the controller. Add about 10% for overall system wattage.

O'Day 31

Length at waterline 25' 7in

Beam 10' 9in

Draft "5'3in deep, 4' shoal"

Displacement "10,100, 10,400 shoal"

My original setup was direct drive with a Saietta 7.5kw, 4QD controller and a 12"x7 prop

New setup ME1803 8.1kw, Curtis 1236SE, 16" Brunton Autorpop. First try was 2:1 reduction. I was hitting my amp limit at 6.1 knots. Changed to a 3.26:1. That allowed me to kit 7knots at 9000 watts.

10.2kwh lifepo4. 51.2 nominal. 

Matt Foley 

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 04:28:08 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

Thanks for the details. 

I have a feathering prop (J Prop) and to get it to feather with the diesel I would shut the motor down in forward, shift to reverse, then back to neutral.   It would then stay feathered in neutral.  If you went from forward to neutral without first going to reverse it would continue to spin.  I am hoping to be able to do the equivalent procedure with the electric to get the prop to feather.  But I will have to take care not to shock the prop in the process.  I will experiment with making it "invisible" which may offer lower drag than feathered due to the relatively large angle of the prop shaft from horizontal in my case (15 deg).  But that will not be an option for racing which I do on a somewhat casual basis. 

The same should be true for a Max Prop but the Autoprop is a different (and very interesting) beast. 

I think that ME 1803 is the motor that Beta Marine is using in their new parallel hybrid system.
https://betamarine.co.uk/he-hybrid-propulsion/

What are you doing for the thrust bearing with the ME1803?

I'll be interested in hearing about your reduction gear experience.   I was planning to start with 3:1 myself.  This is in a Pearson 10M (33'), 13,000 lbs, ME1616 motor, 18" J Prop, 14kWh LiFePo4, 48V.  3:1 will get me a max prop RPM of 800.  I have planned for some flexibility in the drive belt pulley sizing and the prop is variable pitch.  I am deep into fabricating all the mountings for the motor, reduction drive and thrust bearing.  I hope to be on the water in a few weeks. 


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

 

On 2021-05-10 2:41 pm, Matt Foley wrote:

Hi Dan,

 

My old motor was a Saietta. Basically identical to the Thoosa. New motor is a Motenergy ME1803. 

 

I don't recall the specs but the Saietta has a thrust bearing that can handle many many times more than thrust generated by the prop. 

 

Yes, prop needs to be locked in place. Havn't put much thought into it. If I was crossing oceans it would be a different story, but my for my  use case, I find myself motor sailing most of the time and if wanted to make the prop invisible it doesn't take much power at all. If I wanted to get fancy, it should be possible lock the shaft electronically through the controller 

 

In a few weeks ill have data for old vs new setup and variations of the new setup. 

 

Matt Foley 

Sunlight Conversions

Perpetual Energy, LLC

201-914-0466

sunlightconversions.com

instagram.com/sunlightconversions/

youtube/sunlightconversions

 

 

 

On Monday, May 10, 2021, 02:59:01 PM EDT, Dan Pfeiffer <dan@pfeiffer.net> wrote:

 

 

Do you need to lock the prop shaft to get the Autoprop to feather for sailing?   If so how do you plan to do that? 

What motor is that?  Looks like a Thoosa?  Is there a thrust bearing in the motor?  

Do you have any performance data to share?  Knots vs Watts? 


Thanks, Dan Pfeiffer

 

<RiverRyder Saietta vs ME1803.pdf>