Wednesday, August 27, 2014

[Electric Boats] Cal 2-27 electric repower almost finished!

 

Today I actually turned the prop and pushed the boat fore and aft in the slip with the new electric setup. I still need to drill mounting holes in the fiberglass engine bed stringers to anchor the new motor mount base rails, and do final alignment and bolt it all down. Testing was at low power with the mount not properly bolted down, and #4 temporary cables for easier handling and moving components. I will be using 2/0 cable throughout, when everything is complete. I might go ahead and finish mounting the mount, wiring the wire, and take a little boat ride this evening, just for fun. No meters yet... I will install them tomorrow. System details: ME0201014201 BLDC 5kw motor Kelly KBL48301X controller Baldor 2:1 enclosed gearbox 48v bank of 8 6v GC2 golf cart batteries from Sams Charger came with the controller and I will upgrade later Mount made from 4x3x1/4" angle iron and 1/8" steel for the NEMA 56C faceplate Homemade control box with start switxh, forward/reverse switch, power pot, and regen pot. Prop is existing 3 blade folder, soon to be upgraded. After selling the old Atomic for $300, I am in for about $2500 all together. Pretty cheap, huh?

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Re: [Electric Boats] Forum -Moderator thanks

 

1more to say thank you. While I seldom post and try to spend little time on the computer, this is one of the sites I actually read the information submitted. Thank you Miles for what you do.

Cheers, 
Ric Sanders

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Monday, August 25, 2014

Re: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

Six years, sounds like you got good use for the pack.  Figure what you saved over gas cost and inconvenience in use, then maybe it is easier to figure the new battery pack base cost.  I do DEKA, and expect they will last as long, or also have Interstate types too, sounds like you have a good system to me.  Replace all as a unit of course, but check each one for load test,  while you have them now.  I had one battery in a 48 volt bank go bad and make the others look bad, so that might single out one potential bad battery in the bank.
 
Good Luck,  Cal
 
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 8:23 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway
 
 

Hi everyone,

I have an electric yacht motor, driven by 8 Trojan T105 batteries, wired in series to produce 48Vdc. I have owned the system and the batteries for  6 years. I have noticed this year that I am getting really significant voltage drops while underway.


I can see the motor controller display going from 48 down to 24 Vdc, all within an hour, under what I consider to be normal cruising conditions and amp draw.


I guess there may be two problems.


1) A resistance problem- maybe thermally induced ( but I don't think so)

2) The lead acid batteries are crapping out on me.


Has anyone had this experience? What should I do to determine if the batteries are due for replacement?


please advise, Brad

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Posted by: "cal" <h20dragon@centurytel.net>
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[Electric Boats] Re: Voltage drop underway

 

What they said. But one more thing... If your charger can give an equalizing charge, try that. See this link http://www.trojanbattery.com/BatteryMaintenance/Equalizing.aspx You need to be able to deliver 62 volts for a proper equalizing charge for a 48v bank. Alternately you can charge them separately and this might be better. One old timer trick is to vigorously shake or agitate the battery after high current bulk charging. Proper protective gear of course. If only one battery is bad, it may be worth your while to replace just the one for a season or two and figure on replacing the whole bank when the next one craps out. But 6 years is a normal life and if one is bad, the rest will soon follow, most likely. If you have two fairly good ones, you could keep them for a dedicated backup bilge pump bank, with its own solar charging. That way you have a totally redundant and separate system for dewatering in the event your primary system does not automatically pump the boat out for some reason. Yeah, you could have a bad connection or bad wire, and that is a good thing to check first since it is a quick and cheap fix, but when all is said and done I would bet a dollar to a donut you have at least one battery with high internal resistance. Try to bring it back, but remember you will soon be replacing them anyway so don't sweat it if they just won't cooperate. If you really rely on your motor you might consider a secondary bank, maybe 4 group 31s or even smaller, just enough to get you into your slip. Then if your primary bank just quits, good to go.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

I would remove the caps and inspect the cells under charge for excessive off gassing.
I would clean all terminals long before I replaced the battery bank.
Because one cell can be a problem I would test with hydometer all cells.

It shouldn't be done, but one bad cell can be replaced i.e. one battery and you might get a couple extra seasons out of the bank before you would need to replace  the whole bank.

The question would be; what would another season be worth in dollars and cents.

Kevin Pemberton

On Aug 25, 2014 9:23 AM, "oconnell_brad@yahoo.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi everyone,

I have an electric yacht motor, driven by 8 Trojan T105 batteries, wired in series to produce 48Vdc. I have owned the system and the batteries for  6 years. I have noticed this year that I am getting really significant voltage drops while underway.


I can see the motor controller display going from 48 down to 24 Vdc, all within an hour, under what I consider to be normal cruising conditions and amp draw.


I guess there may be two problems.


1) A resistance problem- maybe thermally induced ( but I don't think so)

2) The lead acid batteries are crapping out on me.


Has anyone had this experience? What should I do to determine if the batteries are due for replacement?


please advise, Brad

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Posted by: Kevin Pemberton <pembertonkevin@gmail.com>
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RE: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

Try a few charges and discharges? They prefer use to idleness and may
bounce back at least to some extent.

Craig

=====

>Hi Brad,
>
>When the voltage drops like that, you are definitely dealing with an
>increase in resistance. It could be loose connections, but at 6
>years old, it more likely internal resistance inside the batteries.
>New batteries will likely cure your problems.
>
>
>
>Pat
>
>
>
>
>
>From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
>Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:24 AM
>To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I have an electric yacht motor, driven by 8 Trojan T105 batteries,
>wired in series to produce 48Vdc. I have owned the system and the
>batteries for  6 years. I have noticed this year that I am getting
>really significant voltage drops while underway.
>
>
>
>I can see the motor controller display going from 48 down to 24 Vdc,
>all within an hour, under what I consider to be normal cruising
>conditions and amp draw.
>
>
>
>I guess there may be two problems.
>
>
>
>1) A resistance problem- maybe thermally induced ( but I don't think so)
>
>2) The lead acid batteries are crapping out on me.
>
>
>
>Has anyone had this experience? What should I do to determine if the
>batteries are due for replacement?
>
>
>
>please advise, Brad
>
>

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Posted by: Craig Carmichael <craig@saers.com>
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RE: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

Hi Brad,

When the voltage drops like that, you are definitely dealing with an increase in resistance.  It could be loose connections, but at 6 years old, it more likely internal resistance inside the batteries.  New batteries will likely cure your problems.

 

Pat

 

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:24 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

 

Hi everyone,

I have an electric yacht motor, driven by 8 Trojan T105 batteries, wired in series to produce 48Vdc. I have owned the system and the batteries for  6 years. I have noticed this year that I am getting really significant voltage drops while underway.

 

I can see the motor controller display going from 48 down to 24 Vdc, all within an hour, under what I consider to be normal cruising conditions and amp draw.

 

I guess there may be two problems.

 

1) A resistance problem- maybe thermally induced ( but I don't think so)

2) The lead acid batteries are crapping out on me.

 

Has anyone had this experience? What should I do to determine if the batteries are due for replacement?

 

please advise, Brad

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Re: [Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

You have done exceedingly well, if lead acid has lasted 6 years.
Or, your charging is good and loads have been lights, and its never cold where the batteries are kept, and they are never overloaded.

Measure freshly charged batteries voltage individually.
Likely, some have low voltage vs what they should have.

If that is the case, they (as a rule) need to be replaced as a set.
On a more practical bent, acids, flush etc. tricks can eek out maybe one more season from them- with risk of failure just when you needed them.
Li-ion is a better alternative, today.

Otoh, if they have served your needs, and you were happy with them, that is proof its a good solution for You, asi-is, where is.
Better is the enemy of good enough.


--   -hanermo (cnc designs)

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[Electric Boats] Voltage drop underway

 

Hi everyone,

I have an electric yacht motor, driven by 8 Trojan T105 batteries, wired in series to produce 48Vdc. I have owned the system and the batteries for  6 years. I have noticed this year that I am getting really significant voltage drops while underway.


I can see the motor controller display going from 48 down to 24 Vdc, all within an hour, under what I consider to be normal cruising conditions and amp draw.


I guess there may be two problems.


1) A resistance problem- maybe thermally induced ( but I don't think so)

2) The lead acid batteries are crapping out on me.


Has anyone had this experience? What should I do to determine if the batteries are due for replacement?


please advise, Brad

__._,_.___
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Sunday, August 24, 2014

Re: [Electric Boats] Half launch today.

 

Congrats! Best wishes with the project, although I'm sure all will be well!

Fred Liesegang

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Saturday, August 23, 2014

Re: [Electric Boats] Half launch today.

 

I finally moved from the service dock today. I did a few bollard pull tests before leaving and the system was drawing 76A at 52.3V for about 3950 watts. I might need a more powerful prop in order to hit the 100A target; we'll see. 

The Electroprop system is quiet and smooth and very powerful. I can't spend any time on Fugu this weekend but I will have all next weekend to do performance runs and hopefully collect some meaningful data. 

It feels great to finally be on the water with my electric boat! It's definitely generating a lot of interest along my dock...

Also, while leaving the service dock for the first time, my wife was hesitant to get on the boat and have us drifting, in case there was no power. She forgot that once the key was turned, the system was "on", despite being utterly silent. Needless to say, she is very pleased with the result. 

/Jason

On Aug 19, 2014, at 15:59, "Jason Taylor jt.yahoo@jtaylor.ca [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

So today, I launched my boat, Fugu.
It's only a half launch as the batteries are not yet installed. The water is staying on the proper side of the hull so all is well.
I should have the batteries installed tomorrow and then I'll motor away from the service dock and take my slip.
It's a long roads do finally feel like I'm almost home.

Cheers,

/Jason

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Thursday, August 21, 2014

[Electric Boats] Re: Large Sailing Vessel

 

Sally,

Thank you for your reply. We are going to perhaps write up an RFP and contact a number of different potential vendors. What I'd like to do now is kind of have a "snowball" sample and try to find as many vendors to send the RFP out to get proposals from. Anyway very excited to be involved with this project. If any of you are in Sausalito you should look up the ETS and stop by and introduce yourself at the shipyard.  

Cheers,

Bradley Asztalos

semicolonsutra@yahoo.com
brad@customweather.com
Director of Engineering 
CustomWeather, Inc

Thu Aug 21 00:07:23 PDT 2014


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Wednesday, August 20, 2014

Re: [Electric Boats] Help with overheating motor, no load

 

Sounds like the power phases don't match the magnet hall sensor
phases. There are 6 possibilites, only one of which is right. Three
won't run. Two possibilities will give the effects you describe,
operation pretty decent in one direction and crappy with high
currents in the other. Only one way of six matches up. Start swapping
your phase wires. Or alternatively, the magnet sensor wires.

Craig

==============================

>
>
>As some of you know, I am in the process of replacing the old Atomic
>4 in my sailboat with an electric motor. I still dont have the steel
>and hardware for the mount, but i have all the other components. I
>got everything hooked up just to make sure the motor would spin, and
>it seems to run pretty good in reverse, but in forward it only will
>turn over at maybe 400 rpm, it makes a lot of noise, and it
>overheats in seconds. I followed all the diagrams and stuff, but
>something is obviously wrong. Motor is a ME02010104201 brushless
>motor similar to the 0907. Controller is a Kelly KBL48301X, supply
>is 8 GC2 6v golf cart batteries in series for 48v. Motor is not
>mounted or coupled to anything and there was no load on it at all.
>Could the Hall sensors be out of order? Reverse polarity on them? It
>runs great in reverse, though. I double checked my wiring and I will
>triple and quadruple check it tomorrow. I have not done any
>configuration... All internal settings are still factory. I even
>took the fan guard off and checked the fan. No difference. I tried
>switching the motor leads but the way I had them is the only way it
>turns over at all. In any other order besides this way, it just cogs
>up and won't spin, so I obviously have them right. Controller has
>been shut down for 20 minutes now, and the motor is still
>uncomfortably warm to the touch. The motor supply cables got warm,
>too, so it was pulling a lot of current. Anybody have any idea what
>might be wrong? I do have another motor I could try but I would
>rather just screw up one of them at a time.

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