Wednesday, April 18, 2018

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use

 

You know there is Avery great deal of government distrust going around lately, and you should know that the Russian government encourages those viewpoints as best it can.. Of course you probably wouldn't notice that.

However, the government of ontario is a lot more than a political party in power. There is a substantial bureaucracy with no vested interest in one party or another, who are disinterested in specific political outcomes. 

There is a thing called the auditor general who reports annually on government who's entire mandate is to point out where government is failing in its duty. The most recent report does single out the government for the cost of electricity, and for selling off part of t‎he publicly owned portion of ontario hydro to balance the books. However, nowhere in those report is any question of the veracity of the government's reporting on energy production, which is in fact performed by an arms length corporation.

I suggest everyone take the time to research things properly, and not take the word of serial complainers about every issue.


Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Public mobile network.
From: Jeff LaCoursiere jeff@jeff.net [electricboats]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 5:02 PM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Reply To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use

 


ROFL

On 04/18/2018 03:40 PM, 63urban 63urban@gmail.com [electricboats] wrote:
 

If you can believe the ontario government which I am extremely skeptical of.

Nick

Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "Dominic Amann dominic.amann@gmail.com [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2018-04-18 3:12 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use

 
Easy for me to know. Ontario has live electricity production graph that right now tells me that over 90% of my electricity is ZERO carbon. So however you cut it, my Chevy Volt is both saving money and reducing my carbon footprint. For the number of times I power my boat, it is a non-issue either way.

On 18 April 2018 at 10:14, Jeff LaCoursiere jeff@jeff.net [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I was thinking the same thing.  Its so hard these days, even with numerous sources, to know what to believe.  I think the macro picture, where we are all using electric and the grid is supplied by renewable non-polluting sources, is where we are headed.  If that means that we create some extra carbon along the way I think it is worth it, if that is the truer picture.  Certainly to do nothing is not the right answer, and I don't think the OP was suggesting that, but there are certainly a lot of $$$ at stake hoping that we maintain the status quo.  Personally I tend to view articles that suggest moving towards electric is "not clean" to be sponsored at least in part by these entities, and so with skepticism.  But how I am to know really?  Just planning to keep my eye on the long term goal, and believe I am doing the right thing.

j

On 04/17/2018 07:33 PM, 63urban 63urban@gmail.com [electricboats] wrote:
 

Let's not forget that the manufacturing of the modern electronically controlled ice has as much or more of all the tech you just listed and all those components need to be figured into the ice side of the equation as well.

Bick



Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.


-------- Original message --------
From: "DAN HENNIS dhennis@centurytel.net [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2018-04-17 5:25 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use

 
Ok, I had a couple minutes and thought that since there seems to be nobody willing to look it up themselves, here are a couple to just name a few.  There are both articles for and against each.  I leave it up to the reader to actually do the research and discover the facts as they apply. 

Please note that when looking at "carbon footprint", most forget to look at the construction of the components like the panels, their tech, the batteries, their tech, the electric motors and just a few of their associated tech.  Then there is the controllers, their (all) semiconductors, coating on wire,  epoxies, etc, and the list goes on.

And as for the reactors, one might ask the question, "Since a breeder reactor can feed a regular reactor, do we have an equal number so they can work in harmony?  The answer is NO, thanks to uneducated fear of nuclear energy by the public and politi cal factions...  Not going political here, just stating the obvious.  

See:















     

So, after reading all this, and the sited examples and sources, I came to my initial comments of yesterday.

Truth be known, I like my electrics, but I also like my ICE units also.  Each has a proper use and a proper place in the world.  As for the "down sizing" comment, it is clear you have not traveled Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho Oregon, Washington, The Dakotas, or any of the millions of square (or round) miles of the unpopulated parts of the earth.  And nobody wants to remember that we have several times t he oil in our own land than in the Middle East.  (I refuse to do your homework on this comment.  Google is free and my time is not.)

Like I said, I knew this would "open a can of worms" and they'd all crawl out.

Final comment, Please enjoy the good parts of the electric world and have a really mellow day.

*


 

----- Original Message -----
From: Kev captainyoung@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use





 
Uses 4-7 times the fossil fuels as a cabin cruiser with a huge diesel/gas internal combustion engine?
Can you explain the physics of that? : )

You need to back up what you say with sources, and clarify what you are talking about. You are just spreading oil and gas propaganda.

There is embodied energy in batteries and solar panels, but they make that energy back in their lifetime, and batteries are recyclable.

We need to slow down and down size. With 7.6 billion humans, we all can not have a 2 gallon/mile mega-yacht.

We should take some things seriously, like destroying our planet. We only have one, so it is kind of serious if we destroy this one.
The future is going to be awesome. Clean air, quiet electric self driving cars, planes and boats. That sounds pretty cool to me.



On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 7:41 AM, king_of_neworleans <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Maybe assuming absolute worse case scenario such as power generated by coal fired plants, burning soft coal, I dont know. I do know that if you are looki ng at shore charging from hydro or nuclear, obviously electric is pretty clean. Large diesel ICE electric generating plants are much cleaner and more efficient than small diesels per kw. Then there is economy of scale. A straight diesel-electric propulsion system of course is not typically very efficient, but a parallel hybrid can be. Solar panels, if you are able to use them for a reasonable projected lifespan, are pretty clean. So just intuitively, without any data at hand, I have to question your figures. No doubt there are others who are probably thinking the same thing.


Much can be done to make electric drives and charging/storage systems more efficient, too. For instance, keeping battery charge in the bulk charging range most of the time and only going into absorption and float charging periodically, equalizing every few months instead of monthly or never at all. Keeping the bottom and prop clean. Proper selection of prop and reduction.



---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <dhennis@...> wrote :

I like electric too.  I even have several.  So, I know this is going to come as a surprise to you and open a really big can of worms, but, ... Did you know that with our technology, AND taking into account all the manufacturing processes required, the "electric carbon and pollution foot print" is conservatively between 4 and 7 times more dirty and polluting than the basic use of fossil fuels?  There have been several studies by independent labs to prove it.   I have read one that claimed only 3 times more polluting, and one from a socialist think-tank that claimed 12 times , but I think that most of them were in the 4-7 range.  Take it for what its worth, everything has its place and in moderation.Enjoy your boat while you have it.  Have fun and don't take anything too seriously.  Cheers,









--
Dan Hennis
CTR Services
P.O. Box 254
417-396-0228





-- 
                              
                              
It is not because things are difficult                                that we dare not venture. It is because we                                dare not venture that they are difficult -                                Seneca.
                              

                              
                              Dominic Amann
                              M 416-270-4587
                            
                          
                        
                      
                    
                  
                
              
              
 
              
                
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