Let's not forget that the manufacturing of the modern electronically controlled ice has as much or more of all the tech you just listed and all those components need to be figured into the ice side of the equation as well.
Bick
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message --------
From: "DAN HENNIS dhennis@centurytel.net [electricboats]" <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 2018-04-17 5:25 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use
Ok, I had a couple minutes and thought that since there seems to be nobody willing to look it up themselves, here are a couple to just name a few. There are both articles for and against each. I leave it up to the reader to actually do the research and discover the facts as they apply.
Please note that when looking at "carbon footprint", most forget to look at the construction of the components like the panels, their tech, the batteries, their tech, the electric motors and just a few of their associated tech. Then there is the controllers, their (all) semiconductors, coating on wire, epoxies, etc, and the list goes on.
And as for the reactors, one might ask the question, "Since a breeder reactor can feed a regular reactor, do we have an equal number so they can work in harmony? The answer is NO, thanks to uneducated fear of nuclear energy by the public and political factions... Not going political here, just stating the obvious.
See:
http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/solar-panel-origin
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324128504578346913994914472
https://www.parliament.uk/documents/post/postpn268.pdf
http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green
http://blog.wegowise.com/2012-06-26-your-cars-carbon-footprint-hybrid-vs.-gasoline-vs.-electric-cars
https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think
http://blog.solarcity.com/net-carbon-impact-solar-panel-system/
http://www.abb.com/cawp/seitp202/822B52D1FBAB394EC12574B90049F5A2.aspx
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/
https://sustainability.stackexchange.com/questions/5916/what-are-the-carbon-emissions-from-the-manufacture-of-the-hybrid-components-of-a
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-carbon-footprint-created-by-manufacturing-solar-panels-outweigh-their-use
https://cleantechnica.com/2013/03/14/comparing-the-carbon-footprint-of-energy-storage-technologies/
https://www.afdc.energy.gov/calc/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-fast-breeder-react/
http://www.answers.com/Q/How_are_breeder_reactors_different_from_regular_nuclear_reactors
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110913141700AAmLRTU
So, after reading all this, and the sited examples and sources, I came to my initial comments of yesterday.
Truth be known, I like my electrics, but I also like my ICE units also. Each has a proper use and a proper place in the world. As for the "down sizing" comment, it is clear you have not traveled Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho Oregon, Washington, The Dakotas, or any of the millions of square (or round) miles of the unpopulated parts of the earth. And nobody wants to remember that we have several times the oil in our own land than in the Middle East. (I refuse to do your homework on this comment. Google is free and my time is not.)
Like I said, I knew this would "open a can of worms" and they'd all crawl out.
Final comment, Please enjoy the good parts of the electric world and have a really mellow day.
*
----- Original Message -----
From: Kev captainyoung@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use
From: Kev captainyoung@gmail.com [electricboats] <electricboats@yahoogroups.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 08:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: EPA commuication regarding 15% Ethanol use
So this boat: http://www.transatlantic21.org/
Uses 4-7 times the fossil fuels as a cabin cruiser with a huge diesel/gas internal combustion engine?Can you explain the physics of that? : )
You need to back up what you say with sources, and clarify what you are talking about. You are just spreading oil and gas propaganda. We should take some things seriously, like destroying our planet. We only have one, so it is kind of serious if we destroy this one.
The future is going to be awesome. Clean air, quiet electric self driving cars, planes and boats. That sounds pretty cool to me.
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 7:41 AM, king_of_neworleans <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Maybe assuming absolute worse case scenario such as power generated by coal fired plants, burning soft coal, I dont know. I do know that if you are looking at shore charging from hydro or nuclear, obviously electric is pretty clean. Large diesel ICE electric generating plants are much cleaner and more efficient than small diesels per kw. Then there is economy of scale. A straight diesel-electric propulsion system of course is not typically very efficient, but a parallel hybrid can be. Solar panels, if you are able to use them for a reasonable projected lifespan, are pretty clean. So just intuitively, without any data at hand, I have to question your figures. No doubt there are others who are probably thinking the same thing.
Much can be done to make electric drives and charging/storage systems more efficient, too. For instance, keeping battery charge in the bulk charging range most of the time and only going into absorption and float charging periodically, equalizing every few months instead of monthly or never at all. Keeping the bottom and prop clean. Proper selection of prop and reduction.
---In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, <dhennis@...> wrote :I like electric too. I even have several. So, I know this is going to come as a surprise to you and open a really big can of worms, but, ... Did you know that with our technology, AND taking into account all the manufacturing processes required, the "electric carbon and pollution foot print" is conservatively between 4 and 7 times more dirty and polluting than the basic use of fossil fuels? There have been several studies by independent labs to prove it. I have read one that claimed only 3 times more polluting, and one from a socialist think-tank that claimed 12 times, but I think that most of them were in the 4-7 range. Take it for what its worth, everything has its place and in moderation.Enjoy your boat while you have it. Have fun and don't take anything too seriously. Cheers,
--
Dan Hennis
CTR Services
P.O. Box 254
14237 FR 1155
Cassville, MO 65625-0254
417-396-0228
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