T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic [3 Attachments]

[Attachment(s) from Kirk Grier included below]

Hi,

Here's some photos of how the 48V bank of 8 6V's are secured in Footloose, my Cal 2-34. The battery box is bolted to the rear bulkhead and is bolted to both the engine stringers and a glassed in support on the hull. The batteries use a watering manifold system that is connected to an external feed. The cover slots down into the box and the rear bulkhead. It is then strapped around the box and cover with cargo load straps. Finally the box is vented via a 12V brushless muffin fan via the old exhaust exit in the transom. The batteries have play in the box laterally which I shim out with wood.

Hope this helps. - Kirk

On 8/30/2010 11:40 PM, Rob Johnson wrote:

Dan , I've already explained that I suffer from Arthritis , and some times my hands don't allow me to raise the gaff on my main.

I still have 2 headsails to use , but on those days , I still go out , motoring , using the headsails as steadying sails .

In the future , I may well sell this boat and get something I can sail easier , and set up with hybrid power.

My query is to find out how people are securing batteries etc , with this boat in mind.

Regards Rob J.

From: Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 August, 2010 4:18:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic

Well the battery bank is supposed to be in an approved enclosed container with a vent. Mine has a vent on the transom 1/2" line more than likely something for the engine. So I have an enclosed box with a vent above the water line. Salt water and batteries do not mix. I used to mix chloride and acid to make Chlorine dioxide for cleaning wells. I found out it works rather well to kill gophers also. As far as a generator on deck I am not sure why you would have one on deck if you have such big waves (Why aren't you sailing at this point). On calm days when you have to motor... The same thing can happen to a gas or diesel engine so I still do not see the point. Splash just a little water on a gas engine and I do not think it will run. My car quits every time I wash it. I guess a water tight bulkhead would come to mind for electrical or gas engines.

Dan

--- On Tue, 8/31/10, Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 12:40 AM

Dan , my question was what do people do to protect their battery bank , or on deck generator from being swamped .

All of the boat owners we have to assist would have done things differently , in hindsight , I'm looking to other peoples foresight .

Regards Rob J.

From: Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 August, 2010 2:04:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic

If you have to safe guard against everything to the point that if you leave the house there has to be 100% chance you are going to return you would never be able to leave the house. Further more how safe are you in the house to begin with.

If the boat got swamped by a wave why was the hatch open? Owners fault.
Boats have been sailing for decades without an electrical bilge pump. Why did they not have a manual bilge pump? Owners fault.
No backup battery for the radio or even a handheld. Owners fault.

Pilots hit mountains all the time in airplanes, it is rarely if ever the planes fault or anything to do with the plane. It is almost always pilot error. Same holds true for a ship at sea.

Dan

--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 10:01 PM

I'd really like to have a hybrid marine diesel setup , with some solar panels also.

It would mean , like I have done over the last few weeks , when the arthritis is playing up too much to get the mainsail up , I can motor .

Over 2 hours of motoring , I probably wouldn't use 3 litres of diesel , so its no big deal.

But when I get out to the fishing grounds it would be nice to then switch to electric , and just troll around like I do now .

Trolling in engine mode , well its not as much fun as under sail , but over this winter , I'd only put the main up 1/2 the times I've gone out , and I go out at least once a week , over winter , every second day , or more , in the warmer months.

I won't have petrol or gas on the boat , and all electrical work is done by a very experienced marine electrician.

I work also in the radio room of the volunteer Coastguard , and all of our callouts have been involving petrol engines , fires and explosions , and electrical.

None with diesel engines failing.

Its pretty chilling , to get a "mayday" from a boat way out to sea , after a petrol fumes explosion and fire.

I'd love to have the best of both worlds , diesel , and electric.

My concern though , is we read of these big banks of batteries , and petrol generators , I presume on deck , what happens if they get swamped ?.

One of our last responses was to an epirb , set off by a boat owner after his boat was hit by a rogue wave , and was in real danger of sinking.

No electrics , no way of starting the outboard , no radio , no electric bilge pump.

Could someone please tell us how they have safeguarded against this occurrence ?.

Regards Rob J.

From: sirdarnell <sirdarnell@yahoo.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 31 August, 2010 11:59:43 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: Retrofiting a classic

No one has developed the controller for this in smaller sizes. Also, I think in small systems the fuel savings don't make up for the costs of the electric drive system.

The trick is to use any excess energy in a useful and needed fashion while keeping the diesel generator running in it's ideal power band, usually 65-85% of full speed (rpms.) However, a possibility would be a smart battery controller with remote generator start up (you can find these on some websites selling to the off-grid market.) Assuming you have a good sized house battery so you can sit in a nice anchorage and enjoy nature without a generator constantly running... Use the house (not starting) battery drive your motor, but have the charge controller automatically turn on the generator when the batteries hit some level, say 50% dept of discharge. Now if you've an efficient, preferably DC generator, that can provide full power to the charger and the motor, we're set. When you hear the generator start or see the indicator light come on, if possible, adjust boat speed until the generator is running at 65-80% of maximum rpms.

BTW hybrids are not diesel-electrics or gas-electrics, unless they are what one company calls an extended range electric car. Since in a diesel-electric system the diesel doesn't attached to the drive train, not even in trains. (Except one Canadian brand that has diesel/electric hybrid train engine.)

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ewdysar@...> wrote:
>
> Sid,
>
> You're absolutely correct. Diesel-electric has been used for many decades and has proven to be more efficient than diesel alone. But there appears to be a problem of scale. Do you know of any specific examples of successful diesel-electric vehicles or vessels that weigh less than 100 tons?
>
> Fair winds,
> Eric
> Marina del Rey, CA
>
> --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "sirdarnell" <sirdarnell@> wrote:
> >
> > I keep seeing this. The military has been using diesel generators with electric engines since the 1930s (maybe earlier) to get more range. So it must be work. Not to mention trains, cruise ships, Ice breakers, freighters, etc.
> >
> > --- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Michaels <nov32394@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Unless you are going to supplement the generator with solar and wind or shore power I think you will get less range than by just using a diesel engine.
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
>

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