T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells

Monday, September 21, 2009

Re: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?

During work with small generator manufacturer, our gasoline burn rate varied between 380gr/kWh to 420gr/kWh, depending on air temperature, loading and engine displacements. The small diesels did a little better, burning from 350gr/kWh all the way down to 270gr/kWh for the larger twin cylinder 15kW unit. I hope the best for fuel cells, as they were invented in 1838, and then, like now, were considered just five years away from scalable commercial viability. Fuel cells operate on pure hydrogen and oxygen. Not often mentioned is their vulnerability to CO. Just 10ppm in the hydrogen will fatally poison the platinum-catalyzed membrane. Another consideration is the amount of noise produced. The Honda Clarity fuel cell has a high speed compressor which consumes roughly 30% of the gross produced energy. I have not had the opportunity to test drive one yet, but accounts of the sound equate it to a "continuous cat fight". The SAE Fuel Cell seminar I attended last
year concluded with the damning assertion that, all things considered (fuel, manufacturing costs, operation, and end-of-life recovery), a turbo-diesel was far more ecological, and less than 20% as expensive to operate. On another note, I am currently incorporating a 10kW Ballard fuel cell into a test vehicle designed for sentry duty. The fuel cell offeres adequate power that can be left on standby for years without degradation.
Boats offer another type of opportunity that has to be exploited, that of wave energy. Laying at anchor, I've often considered how to harness the incessent rocking motion of the sea, either by pumping a fliud into an accululator, or by directly converting the motion to rotation to turn a micro generator. If any member wants to endevor such a undertaking, I'll be glad to supply them with a suitable proto-type generator. The energy could be captured as the relative motion between an bouy and the boat, using the rigid connecting arm to drive a mechanism at a hinged connection at the boat. In addition to "free energy", the effect would also add to the comfort of the boat by reducing pitching while on a hook.

Arby

________________________________
From: Carel Ruysink <c.ruysink@hetnet.nl>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:24:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?

This means that the fuelcell has an efficienty of 26%. (900/(900+2600) = 900/3500).
That is in the same range as an IC motor like a Honda 2000i.

So you will need the same kind of coolingcapacity as a Honda 2000i wich is aircooled.
This means you need a fan. That will be the only thing you will hear.
So techniquely it is no more or less demanding than a genset. But it needs a bit DIY at the moment.
Or you can of course watercool the whole thing but that needs quite a set up in your boat.

Carel.

----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Twete
To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?

Thanks Keith-

But at 1gal/hr for 1kw, that wouldn't compare to the gensets
available.looking at the website, I see it indicates 1 liter/hr at 900watts
(out at 20-56v), which ain't bad.

I think my Honda EU2000i is rated at 1.6kw output (AC) for nominally the
same fuel rate (gas instead of methanol). And given the Honda's 1.6kw goes
thru nom. 80% efficient charger, it's only delivering about 1.2-1.3kw per
liter/hr. But how awesome it would be to have quiet fuel cells doing this
work?

Still, can someone translate for me how to understand the 2.6kw Cooling
requirement for the IRD Fuel Cell 900w generator?

I mean, if I have to provide 2.6kw of energy to cool the cells which will
"consume" fuel, yet only deliver 900watt, am I a fool to consider this a
good thing?

The math just don't seem to work out---I'm sure I'm missing something
here.maybe with marine application it just means we have to pump cool river
water thru it for cooling?

Still, 2.6kw of cooling seems like a huge requirement.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

From: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:electricboats@ yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of aweekdaysailor
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:50 AM
To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?

OK, I know this may seem a little far-out but I remain convinced that
fuel cells are the "perfect" e-boat solution. Not as primary power, but
as "continuous" chargers.

I think we can all agree that eboat benefits are about
noise/smell/ green/convenienc e/simplicity - roughly in that order.

For example - on my boat with 200AH (lead-acid) capacity, I have about
2 hours of cruising time @ 2KW draw to 60% DOD. That has averaged out
pretty well for a typical day of sailing on SF bay (some days <20AH
total, some days >80).

But with continuous charging (500W) a couple of interesting things
happen. I get another 45min (40%) of cruising (in 5 hours average
sailing day). Plus extended cruising is now enabled. Lets say I tap out
and want to anchor for the night somewhere without power. 500watts
continuous over 10 hours = 5KW. That's pretty much topped the batteries
off again and I have another day of sailing. In 15 hours I will have
used about 7gallons of fuel - not inconsiderable, but manageable (oh and
you can cook with it too)

For all their power density - lithium batteries can't touch this - at
most they just delay the inevitable for another day. Marine genny's are
expensive AND they fail the noise/smell/ green/convenienc e/simplicity
test.

I'm contacting several of the vendors now. This one looks most
promising:

http://www.ird. dk/products_ fuel_cell_ systems.html
<http://www.ird. dk/products_ fuel_cell_ systems.html> They have a 1KW
unit (consuming about 1g/hour) which improves the equation even more.

Based on pricing info so far, these systems are cheaper in capital
outlay than either Li cells or marine genny's (< $10K) - and net
cost-to-run is cheaper than lead-acid (membrane life is still a concern,
but I expect that to evolve rapidly). You get full house-power for your
flat-screen and ice-maker. Drinking water (and unfortunately a little
CO2) and heat to boot.

Thoughts?

-Keith

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