Monday, September 21, 2009

[Electric Boats] Re: DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?

 

Hey Keith
This is a great find! I've been researching the availibility of Direct Alcohol Fuel Cells for a while now and I've never found these guys. Pros for DMFC; silence & resilience. Cons; Toxicity of Methanol, expense. This company seem to be producing the largest capacity cells that I've seen and these would be great for e-Boats. Please let me know when you get some numbers (but I suspect they will be shocking!)Having methanol on board could give you the chance to ditch the Gas (methane)canister too! The perfect generator would of course be a direct ethanol fuel cell, but I'm afraid they are still a way off yet.
Cheers,
Perry

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, "Carel Ruysink" <c.ruysink@...> wrote:
>
> This means that the fuelcell has an efficienty of 26%. (900/(900+2600) = 900/3500).
> That is in the same range as an IC motor like a Honda 2000i.
>
> So you will need the same kind of coolingcapacity as a Honda 2000i wich is aircooled.
> This means you need a fan. That will be the only thing you will hear.
> So techniquely it is no more or less demanding than a genset. But it needs a bit DIY at the moment.
> Or you can of course watercool the whole thing but that needs quite a set up in your boat.
>
> Carel.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Myles Twete
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:36 PM
> Subject: RE: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?
>
>
> Thanks Keith-
>
> But at 1gal/hr for 1kw, that wouldn't compare to the gensets
> available.looking at the website, I see it indicates 1 liter/hr at 900watts
> (out at 20-56v), which ain't bad.
>
> I think my Honda EU2000i is rated at 1.6kw output (AC) for nominally the
> same fuel rate (gas instead of methanol). And given the Honda's 1.6kw goes
> thru nom. 80% efficient charger, it's only delivering about 1.2-1.3kw per
> liter/hr. But how awesome it would be to have quiet fuel cells doing this
> work?
>
> Still, can someone translate for me how to understand the 2.6kw Cooling
> requirement for the IRD Fuel Cell 900w generator?
>
> I mean, if I have to provide 2.6kw of energy to cool the cells which will
> "consume" fuel, yet only deliver 900watt, am I a fool to consider this a
> good thing?
>
> The math just don't seem to work out---I'm sure I'm missing something
> here.maybe with marine application it just means we have to pump cool river
> water thru it for cooling?
>
> Still, 2.6kw of cooling seems like a huge requirement.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
> From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of aweekdaysailor
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:50 AM
> To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Electric Boats] DMFC Fuel Cells - Hybrid Nirvana?
>
> OK, I know this may seem a little far-out but I remain convinced that
> fuel cells are the "perfect" e-boat solution. Not as primary power, but
> as "continuous" chargers.
>
> I think we can all agree that eboat benefits are about
> noise/smell/green/convenience/simplicity - roughly in that order.
>
> For example - on my boat with 200AH (lead-acid) capacity, I have about
> 2 hours of cruising time @ 2KW draw to 60% DOD. That has averaged out
> pretty well for a typical day of sailing on SF bay (some days <20AH
> total, some days >80).
>
> But with continuous charging (500W) a couple of interesting things
> happen. I get another 45min (40%) of cruising (in 5 hours average
> sailing day). Plus extended cruising is now enabled. Lets say I tap out
> and want to anchor for the night somewhere without power. 500watts
> continuous over 10 hours = 5KW. That's pretty much topped the batteries
> off again and I have another day of sailing. In 15 hours I will have
> used about 7gallons of fuel - not inconsiderable, but manageable (oh and
> you can cook with it too)
>
> For all their power density - lithium batteries can't touch this - at
> most they just delay the inevitable for another day. Marine genny's are
> expensive AND they fail the noise/smell/green/convenience/simplicity
> test.
>
> I'm contacting several of the vendors now. This one looks most
> promising:
>
> http://www.ird.dk/products_fuel_cell_systems.html
> <http://www.ird.dk/products_fuel_cell_systems.html> They have a 1KW
> unit (consuming about 1g/hour) which improves the equation even more.
>
> Based on pricing info so far, these systems are cheaper in capital
> outlay than either Li cells or marine genny's (< $10K) - and net
> cost-to-run is cheaper than lead-acid (membrane life is still a concern,
> but I expect that to evolve rapidly). You get full house-power for your
> flat-screen and ice-maker. Drinking water (and unfortunately a little
> CO2) and heat to boot.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Keith
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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