T-Pain Is On A Boat: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: What happens when an electric motor gets wet.

Saturday, March 26, 2011

Re: [Electric Boats] Re: What happens when an electric motor gets wet.

Yes Mike , I've read about diesels being disabled by problems with the fuel , but I've never experienced it personally , or with the CG . I also have a diesel truck , and 2 diesel cars.

Problems with petrol , yes , and electronics and batteries.

The only diesel problem we have had that I recall was a cray boat that had a battery problem , and wouldn't start. We went out , and found he had reversed his battery polarity.

Sort that out , start him , and he was away.

He was too big for us to tow.
Fuel Filtration is always important , and I won't compromise. So too is not leaving the fuel in the boat too long.

But I want to go hybrid , because I want to sail.Fish under sail.

The boat , indeed the style of boat I'm going to get won't do that without some help.

I believe Hybrid would be absolutely perfect .

And when I use the diesel , its at a proper continuous rating , as diesels should be .

I've been doing some research on motorsailing , and have ordered a book on the subject , its very interesting.

We are going out today , and there is absolutely no wind , and 4 metre waves .

Looks like we will be lowering the contents of the diesel tank. It would be a perfect day for hybrid.

Rob J.

From: Mike <biankablog@verizon.net>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 27 March, 2011 2:18:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: What happens when an electric motor gets wet.

Rob:

Truly nasty stuff you want or need to go out in. I can see why you would want a hybrid system. But, I don't think it eliminates all your risk. I am sure you know there are many diesel boats that have become disabled in such conditions when crud and gunk in their fuel tanks get stirred up and rapidly clogs the fuel filter. I would think having a sea anchor would allow for a little more insurance to ride out those conditions than just depending on the diesel engine.

Capt. Mike

http://biankablog.blogspot.com

--- On Fri, 3/25/11, Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: Rob Johnson <dopeydriver@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] Re: What happens when an electric motor gets wet.
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 25, 2011, 10:07 PM

Thanks John.

The old Yanmar YSE 12 that was in my current boat when I bought it was 30 yr old when it was installed , but it saw way too much salt water in my boat.

The most obvious effect was that it ran cold , because the sump was always immersed in water.

But the bearing on the hand crank facility had frozen solid , and it was only a matter of time before the starter stopped working too.

But it was one amazing old engine .

I replaced it with a new Lombardini , but more importantly , we installed a dripless shaft seal , and made a new , watertight engine cover in the sole.
I have mates who are professional fishermen , another who builds their boats , and with my CG experience also , its made me very aware of what can , will and does go wrong.

I will be setting the boat up as best I can , then I'll make a decision on whether I can safely go to hybrid.

We will be going out fishing under sail tomorrow. My mate was a professional for many years in the North Sea , makes a living now making and repairing nets for the local fishing fleet , but likes nothing better than fishing under sail.

And there are a few old timers like him still around , continuing a skill that has been used locally for 150 yrs.

The difference between now and then is that they were a lot more skillful sailors , and tougher , and they generally had a crewman too , who could get on the oars and row.

But even they lost a lot of boats , and men in bad weather , or conversely lost their entire catch , because they were becalmed.

Anyway , I know what I want , its just a matter of working to achieve it.I'd like a hybrid setup in a cray boat.

Regards Rob J.

From: John Green <v_2jgree@operamail.com>
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 March, 2011 2:28:35 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Re: What happens when an electric motor gets wet.

Hi, You might, or not, be interested in some small scale experiments I
did when a child.
Using 1.5 volt hobby motors, and having already set up a container of
salt water for some oxygen and hydrogen experimemts, I immersed a
running 1.5 volt dc motor under the salt water. It ran for quite a few
minutes, I got bored, and upped the volts from around 1.5 to around 4.5.
The result was green foam and steam. When I reached 12 volts, the motor
lasted only a few seconds.
Any immersion or splashing might not kill the motor. We have to assume
that you would be running at lower volts, within the design range for
the motor. From the green foam I had, I assume that there was some
serious electroplating effect going on that was degrading copper parts.
I think a key question would be whether the motor continued running or
not.
If not, then basically it would be the same as any other item made of
dissimilar metals that is immersed in salt water. I suspect that if this
is a high risk, it might be prudent to attach isolating switches to all
electric wiring, so that any electrolysis can be averted. Then the only
(Really?!) issue left would be galvanic action.
Another variable would be the time spent wet with salt.
I personally, if having had this occur, would strip the motor into basic
parts, and flush with clean fresh water.
You could look into chemicals that neutralise salt, we have them here in
Canada for cleaning winter road salt deposits off floors. I don't know
what they are made of, or whether they just give cosmetic results rather
than chemically neutral ones.
You would probably be better leaving the parts slowly flushing rather
than drying out, until you have some neutralising method arranged.
From my industrial experience, there is also some special varnish that
motors have over the windings, and that are tested using a 'megger'
device, that I believe tests for conductivity across the surface of the
varnish or whatever. You might need to do preventive maintenance ahead
of time by going with a whole load more varnish - it is special
dielectric varnish, I believe. This would allow subsequent flushing with
less risk.
The real key to operation offshore might be to make the boat so that the
motor does not get wet. This might be possible by enclosing it, and have
shaft seals. A fan making the enclosure have positive pressure might
assist.
An inverted plastic box that will prevent the water rising up to the
motor is another possible way.
Or make the sealing more local, if the heating of the motor permits, by
covering the motor directly. Close it in, and feed dry air to it.

Dunno if this helps,
John

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