Saturday, January 30, 2010

[Electric Boats] Re: Outboard conversion question

 

Thanks for the info guys. My project is an 18' Catboat, 8'-4" beam, approx. weight will 900-1000 lb. I'm of 2 possibilities: First is to mount a MinnKota motor-mount unit- http://www.minnkotamotors.com/products/trolling_motors/engine_mount/freshwater.aspx - (model MK101EM - 100 lb thrust) into the aft end of the keel; the second possibility is to use Glen-L's ED design- thats' where the outboard idea came from, although I'm leaning towards the MinnKota approach- cleaner, simpler install, a proven product.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, redu <reino.urala@...> wrote:
>
> My system:
> Yamaha 15hp rig (bulb gear reduction ratio app. 2)
> PMG_132 pancace motor (revs up to 3200)
> Prop 15" pitch . Diameter 15".
> Works well for max 15 knots.
> Notes:
> Original gas speed max 30kn. Now doing max 15kn. = Lower revs and more
> moment.
> Motor preferred rotation direction is not satisfied. Can not use max
> voltages. Only up to 48V.
>
> redu
>
> cloudmagnet@... wrote:
> > In the Photo section, in the "Default Club Album", there is a photo of an outboard motor conversion (top row, second from right) to electric. Now, from what I've been able to determine, an outboard engine turns over at anywhere from a few thousand RPM to as much as 5 or 6 thousand, while most electric motors top out at 2500 RPM or so. Can someone tell me how this seeming disparity in input speed equates to output? What electric motors would be appropriate for this type of conversion? Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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Re: [Electric Boats] Outboard conversion question

 

This is a good site with a bit of everything Cruisenews.net you'll get the inboard outboard go down to electric drive.That will let you know you can use as many rpm's as a prop will make good.

--- In electricboats@yahoogroups.com, James Massey <jcmassey@...> wrote:
>
> G'day cloudmagnet, All
>
> At 02:49 AM 30/01/2010, cloudmagnet wrote:
> >In the Photo section, in the "Default Club Album", there is a photo
> >of an outboard motor conversion (top row, second from right) to
> >electric. Now, from what I've been able to determine, an outboard
> >engine turns over at anywhere from a few thousand RPM to as much as
> >5 or 6 thousand, while most electric motors top out at 2500 RPM or
> >so. Can someone tell me how this seeming disparity in input speed
> >equates to output? What electric motors would be appropriate for
> >this type of conversion? Thanks
>
> I don't know what motors you have been looking at, but 2500RPM is
> pretty low. My two outboards (1.5kW and 4kW) rev to about 4500RPM,
> most on-road electric cars rev to 4500 to 6000RPM for DC motors and
> 9000 to 12000RPM for AC motors.
>
> Forklifts and other similar vehicles are designed using low battery
> voltage and high loading to be unable to be over-revved under normal
> conditions, without active rev limiting. As such they use motors that
> are rated in the range of 1500 to 2800RPM, but they are only
> nameplate ratings - the ratings that the manufacturer put on them as
> a statement of performance under certain conditions that suit the
> application - these ratings are typically exta-ordinarily
> conservative over what the motor is capable of.
>
> DC motors that are very large are also low revving - but any that big
> are way too big for an outboard. A motor 9" (230mm) in diameter by
> 18" (450mm) long can do 5500RPM, most motors smaller than this can do
> at least these RPMs. How big an outboard are you after?
>
> Typically the rev range of a brushed DC motor is very similar to the
> rev range of an ICE, so are a good replacement.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>

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Friday, January 29, 2010

Re: [Electric Boats] Outboard conversion question

 

My system:
Yamaha 15hp rig (bulb gear reduction ratio app. 2)
PMG_132 pancace motor (revs up to 3200)
Prop 15" pitch . Diameter 15".
Works well for max 15 knots.
Notes:
Original gas speed max 30kn. Now doing max 15kn. = Lower revs and more
moment.
Motor preferred rotation direction is not satisfied. Can not use max
voltages. Only up to 48V.

redu

cloudmagnet@verizon.net wrote:
> In the Photo section, in the "Default Club Album", there is a photo of an outboard motor conversion (top row, second from right) to electric. Now, from what I've been able to determine, an outboard engine turns over at anywhere from a few thousand RPM to as much as 5 or 6 thousand, while most electric motors top out at 2500 RPM or so. Can someone tell me how this seeming disparity in input speed equates to output? What electric motors would be appropriate for this type of conversion? Thanks
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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.

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Re: [Electric Boats] Outboard conversion question

 

G'day cloudmagnet, All

At 02:49 AM 30/01/2010, cloudmagnet wrote:
>In the Photo section, in the "Default Club Album", there is a photo
>of an outboard motor conversion (top row, second from right) to
>electric. Now, from what I've been able to determine, an outboard
>engine turns over at anywhere from a few thousand RPM to as much as
>5 or 6 thousand, while most electric motors top out at 2500 RPM or
>so. Can someone tell me how this seeming disparity in input speed
>equates to output? What electric motors would be appropriate for
>this type of conversion? Thanks

I don't know what motors you have been looking at, but 2500RPM is
pretty low. My two outboards (1.5kW and 4kW) rev to about 4500RPM,
most on-road electric cars rev to 4500 to 6000RPM for DC motors and
9000 to 12000RPM for AC motors.

Forklifts and other similar vehicles are designed using low battery
voltage and high loading to be unable to be over-revved under normal
conditions, without active rev limiting. As such they use motors that
are rated in the range of 1500 to 2800RPM, but they are only
nameplate ratings - the ratings that the manufacturer put on them as
a statement of performance under certain conditions that suit the
application - these ratings are typically exta-ordinarily
conservative over what the motor is capable of.

DC motors that are very large are also low revving - but any that big
are way too big for an outboard. A motor 9" (230mm) in diameter by
18" (450mm) long can do 5500RPM, most motors smaller than this can do
at least these RPMs. How big an outboard are you after?

Typically the rev range of a brushed DC motor is very similar to the
rev range of an ICE, so are a good replacement.

Hope this helps

Regards

[Technik] James

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Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

The yacht designer, Tom MacNaughton, has a beautiful design for a
British narrow boat that while not electric, could easily be adapted to
electric drive. He is a great designer and very easy to work with, and
give extremely good advice to his clients and potential clients.

Check them out at http://macnaughtongroup.com.
Idea Designs page: http://macnaughtongroup.com/idea.htm

I apologize for the off-topic digression, I just love his designs and
this thread brought them to mind.

/Jason

Here are the blurbs from Tom's website concerning the British Narrowboat
and Eventide canal cruiser, from his "Idea Designs" page.

*British Narrowboat* - These *canal cruisers* would be sized to cruise
the between 2,000 and 3,000 miles of the British canal system. However
this brings up the interesting point that you could use these boats in a
great many protected waterways. Most of the eastern half of the United
States could be circumnavigated by a narrowboat. Say you started from
New York. You could go up the Erie Canal across through the Great Lakes
and down the Mississippi. Then you'd go along the Gulf Coast and up the
East Coast. In all these areas there are thousands of miles of detours
up rivers into the heartland of America. You could then ship the boat to
Britain. Once you had done all the British canals you could do the
canals in Ireland and then go over to Europe. You can go all through
most of the nations of Europe, even including Switzerland, by canal.
There are many other huge river and canal systems in the world but just
those named could take a whole lifetime to explore and enjoy properly.
This could be a truly wonderful life for those who like their adventures
to be fairly benign. The critical dimensions of the true British
narrowboat are a beam of no more than 6'10" (2.083 meters). Draft must
be no more than 2' 0" (.61m). The "air draft" or height above the water
must be no more than 5'9" (1.753m). The beam looks small until you
realize that all of it can be used for accommodations as the sections on
these vessels can be very square. The length is the intriguing thing.
You basically buy these boats by the foot. You have a bow and stern
section and then just make the part in between as long as you want. We
were told that the upper limit was about the 70' of the shortest of the
British narrowboat canal locks. However a correspondent from Britain
has told us that there is a lock in the wider canals at Salterhebble
that is around 56', which might make 50' a better limit. This brings
up the intriguing possibility that one might build a relatively short
boat if you had very little money and then simply cut it in half and add
to it whenever you needed more space. Another advantage is that the
interiors can be built by any reasonably good cabinet maker who knows
about fidrails and lift before pull drawers. Thus many people will be
able to have a very long boat built with a completely open interior and
just finish off the interior with cabins as they can afford to.
Interior arrangements are so versatile that we will probably simply show
"sample" cabins and let clients pick and choose which ones they want to
string together and in what sequence. We have had a number of people
ask for these vessels so we look forward to the opportunity to design
one. We already have some nice sketches, which I hope to refine and put
on here shortly.

*Eventide* - This /Canal Cruiser/ is styled after the British
narrowboats and European powered barges with the exception that we have
allowed her to be wider than the true narrowboats and have the option of
having wheelhouses like the European barges. We discuss the
possibilities of the true narrow boats which are only 6'10" wide
(2.083m) elsewhere on this page. However there are only a small number
of miles of canals in the whole world where you need to really restrict
yourself to this beam and a height that prevents you from having a wheel
house. Once you free yourself from the constraints of the narrow boat
canals you find that you can visit an unbelievable number of protected
waterways all over the world. The entire eastern half of the United
States can be circumnavigated by *Eventide*. You would go up the Erie
Canal across through the Great Lakes and down the Mississippi. If you
want to you could take years exploring the tributaries which flow into
the Mississippi and penetrate through much of the eastern /and/ western
halves of the country. You can get to an amazing number of the states
in America's heartland if you travel all these pastoral waterways. When
you do finally descend the rest of the way down to New Orleans, you can
travel along the Gulf Coast waterways until you eventually reach
Florida. Although there is no reason not to go around the southern tip
of Florida and up through the Keys, you might choose to right across
Florida through the Okeechobee Canal and then up through the protected
waters of Florida's East Coast. Before leaving Florida I would suggest
traveling up the St. John River. This beautiful serene river can be
explored an amazing distance through the Florida heartland. Continuing
on up the East Coast you are in a wonderful protected system of canals
and rivers behind the coastline. In this area there are an incredible
number of rivers and large creeks off to the side of the waterway. In
many cases a little exploration up them will bring you to a small town
under the live oaks which may not have seen a yacht for a dozen years.
You could spend a life time exploring just the East Coast. However if
we assume that you do make this trip and want another adventure you
could ship *Eventide* to Europe where you can cruise through every
country in Europe except Spain and Italy, even including Switzerland.
There is no better way to see Europe. The countryside would be our
favorite but imagine running up into Paris and tying up right in the
middle of the city where you can go everywhere, see everything, and
still be at home every night. There are plenty of other larger river,
canal, and lake systems in the world. Enough for many lifetimes of
exploration. This is a great lifestyle for those who prefer to have
their adventures be calm ones. The draft on these vessels is about 2'
(.61m). Although it wouldn't be tough to adapt her to different widths
we have shown *Eventide* with 8' beam (2.44m) in the hull. Many people
would instantly think of wider beam but I'm not sure that makes much
sense in these boats. Even the true 6'10" beam (2.083m) narrowboats
have a lot more room than you'd think because the sides are vertical.
By the time you get to 8' beam it is beginning to be hard to see why
you'd really want more. In a very real sense these vessels are built by
the foot. We have shown standard bow and stern sections and then a
series of 6'6" and 3'3" modules. You can have as many of these modules
as you want between bow and stern up to a 65' limit. You could even
build a short version and cut her in two later and add more in the
middle as your funds allow. Another advantage is that you could have a
complete hull, deck and cabin unit welded up in steel for a very low
price. Then sand blast, epoxy coat, and paint her yourself to save a
very great deal of money. Finally interiors can be built by any
reasonably good cabinet maker who understands the need for fidrails and
lift before pull drawers. Thus many people will be able to afford to
have quite a vessel built with a completely open interior and just
finish it off with cabins as they can afford to. Interior arrangements
can be incredibly versatile. The Wheelhouse module above likely
contains a galley, chart table and steering station. It can be aft as
shown, which is the most traditional, or it could be in the middle of
the vessel, or forward. Since the section is constant in shape you can
have it where you want it. We have also shown a nice main cabin with a
couple of berths with side boards over the end, book shelves out board
and a table in between. We have also shown a 3'6" module with a w.c. on
one side and a sitzbath or shower on the other. The final module is a
nice spacious double stateroom with a double berth, a desk, hanging
lockers etc. Perhaps you'd like to add a library, or a work shop.
Perhaps a green house would be nice. Perhaps you'd like a sort of cargo
module with various fun small boats in it like double paddle canoes and
sailing dinghies for little exploratory expeditions. The possibilities
are endless. We have had a great many people ask about this type of
vessel and look forward to the opportunity to design one.

Peter Day wrote:
> Whist a lot of the responses here on this thread have been very helpful, it is worth bearing in mind the unique nature of the British canal system, and the boats that use it. Canals here were built in the 19th century for "narrow boats". These are between 25 and 72 foot long and mostly have a maximum beam of just 6feet 10 inches. The maximum theoretical beam of a narrowboat is 7 feet but due to age related subsidence of the locks 6'10" is the modern accepted maximum. Due to the displacement of the traditional narrowboat design most need quite a large ballast which of course could be replaced by the batteries. The other important factor is the speed limit of 4 kts on all non flowing and non tidal inland waterways in the UK, this makes them ideal for electric use, however the river sections and more importantly the tidal waters would need a good power reserve. I saw an all electric narrowboat some years ago whilst cruising the Grand Union it had banks of solar panels on the cabin roof and I remember the skipper telling me that he was able to cruise all summer without need to switch on his generator. With modern solar cells and the huge leaps forward in battery design I could imagine that narrowboats would be ideal for such a conversion. Some marinas have hookup to mains power but the way that the canals are it is not common practice for people to use marinas for overnight stops when cruising.Solar Navigator ( http://www.solarnavigator.net) make solar powered narrowboats and the owners of the British canal system (British Waterways) offer a 25% discount on annual fees for non polluting boats! The only down side with large banks of solar panels that I can see is the risk of vandalism to unattended boats. As long as the system leaves enough spare "wiggly amps" to power my "computamabob" and to keep my coffee pot on the go all day I'd be happy!
>
> When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.~ Cree Prophecy

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RE: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 

Whist a lot of the responses here on this thread have been very helpful, it is worth bearing in mind the unique nature of the British canal system, and the boats that use it. Canals here were built in the 19th century for "narrow boats". These are between 25 and 72 foot long and mostly have a maximum beam of just 6feet 10 inches. The maximum theoretical beam of a narrowboat is 7 feet but due to age related subsidence of the locks 6'10" is the modern accepted maximum. Due to the displacement of the traditional narrowboat design most need quite a large ballast which of course could be replaced by the batteries. The other important factor is the speed limit of 4 kts on all non flowing and non tidal inland waterways in the UK, this makes them ideal for electric use, however the river sections and more importantly the tidal waters would need a good power reserve. I saw an all electric narrowboat some years ago whilst cruising the Grand Union it had banks of solar panels on the cabin roof and I remember the skipper telling me that he was able to cruise all summer without need to switch on his generator. With modern solar cells and the huge leaps forward in battery design I could imagine that narrowboats would be ideal for such a conversion. Some marinas have hookup to mains power but the way that the canals are it is not common practice for people to use marinas for overnight stops when cruising.Solar Navigator ( http://www.solarnavigator.net) make solar powered narrowboats and the owners of the British canal system (British Waterways) offer a 25% discount on annual fees for non polluting boats! The only down side with large banks of solar panels that I can see is the risk of vandalism to unattended boats. As long as the system leaves enough spare "wiggly amps" to power my "computamabob" and to keep my coffee pot on the go all day I'd be happy!


When all the trees have been cut down, when all the animals have been hunted, when all the waters are polluted, when all the air is unsafe to breathe, only then will you discover you cannot eat money.
~ Cree Prophecy





To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
From: p0054107@brookes.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 12:44:53 +0000
Subject: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 
theres an extensive canal network here in UK. I've often thought it would be great to do a leuisurely trip . stopping for a while to explore an area whilst charging batteries from solar panels and then moving on. The problem would seem to be that if charging over say a week or two that the batteries would most of the time be only partly charged . Is this a fast way to kill lead acid batteries or would a slow charge resist sulphation?
I'm guessing that a better regime would be to just do a few miles per day using a small depth of charge. Any comments?




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RE: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 

Good post Chris.

Indeed when considering cycle life, the lithium batteries look economical.

However, unless you’re using your boat a lot, that 2000+ cycle life isn’t useful and likely not realizable.

As you allude to, it’s not known yet whether these batteries will last long enough over time to deliver a slow 2000 cycles over many years.

In my case, with but 20-25 charge cycles per year, I’d need to keep this boat afloat and keep these batteries alive for 80-100 years to see 2000 cycles.

So I have to justify based on the other great points you’ve made regarding the LFP batteries.

-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

 

From: electricboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:electricboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Baker
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:55 AM
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 

When you take a look at the prices of LFP batteries, it can be daunting.  But when you consider available energy, as opposed to nominal capacity, the price is not so bad.  And if you consider lifecycle costs they are actually cheaper than lead-acids.  For details, take a look at my analysis here http://currentsunshine.com/?page_id=10

 

There is a downside to this.  The technology is new, and the some of the figures, such as number if cycles, are manufacturer's claims rather than well proven information.

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Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 

Ned:
 
I've not found anything better than the Honda 2000 and yes the ac from it is very clean. I have a Zivan NG-1 48 volt connected to it which puts out somewhere about 16 amps. I could probably get away with a Honda 1000 but, as you noted it would be cutting it a little close powerwise. So I operate the Honda 2000 in eco mode which saves fuel and is pretty quiet. I can also operate the ice maker at the same time. It's working for me but, I always keep my eyes out for improvements in technology. Right now the limiting factor is the amp output of the charger. But, I am not complaining just wishing for another 9 or 10 amps at some point.
 
Capt. Mike
http://biankablog.blogspot.com 

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, Ned Farinholt <nedfarinholt@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Ned Farinholt <nedfarinholt@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling
To: electricboats@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 2:54 PM

 
Capt. Mike,
I am planning a similar backup with a Honda generator. I was surprised to find that the on-board chargers, in general, are so inefficient. Minn-kota's MK 460, a four bank, 15 amp charger is the best I have found, so far. They told me it draws 8 amps at 120v ac and the ac must be sinusoidal, which I think the Honda EU series is. This means 960 watts in and 750 watts out, about 78% efficiency. Other vendors were more in the range of 60%. I was hoping to use the Honda EU1000 (for size and weight) but that looks like it will be calling it too close. I would think that with today's technology, we should be able to get closer to 90%. Did you find anything better? I will be charging a series of eight 6 volt wet cells. 
Ned


On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:22 AM, Mike wrote:

 
Hardy:
 
I would recommend having a Honda 2000 eu (or similar) generator onboard to at least bulk charge the batteries. It is a great backup for when solar falls short of the boats needs. Or you really don't want to spend time at a Marina plugged in. It is a workhorse. It is is small,  lightweight and relatively quiet. I use it onboard to bulk charge the battery bank and power a small ice maker at the same time. I do like a nice "boat drink" at anchor sometimes. <g> Only use it when I need to but, it is a nice backup to have onboard,  
Capt. Mike
http://biankablog. blogspot. com
--- On Fri, 1/29/10, hardy71uk <p0054107@brookes.ac.uk> wrote:

From: hardy71uk <p0054107@brookes.ac.uk>
Subject: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling
To: electricboats@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 12:44 PM

 
theres an extensive canal network here in UK. I've often thought it would be great to do a leuisurely trip . stopping for a while to explore an area whilst charging batteries from solar panels and then moving on. The problem would seem to be that if charging over say a week or two that the batteries would most of the time be only partly charged . Is this a fast way to kill lead acid batteries or would a slow charge resist sulphation?
I'm guessing that a better regime would be to just do a few miles per day using a small depth of charge. Any comments?


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Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 

This is a good example of where LiFePO batteries offer advantages over lead-acid.


They are quite content sitting at low state of charge, and don't suffer like lead-acids do.  You can drop them down to 20% charge and still get around 2000 cycles out of them (which is about three times as much as lead-acids cycling to about 50%).

I have Thundersky LFP batteries in my boat http://currentsunshine.com and initially installed them because of the weight advantage.  But since then I've gotten to learn more about them and it turns out that they have quite a few advantages over lead-acid batteries for powering a solar boat.

As well as being able to deeply discharge them, and leave them at low state of charge without damage, the other advantages are:
virtually no peukert effect
low voltage drop under load
low loss of energy when charging

With the high amps that you can draw with an electric motor, the peukert effect reduces the capacity of a lead-acid battery from its nominal value, which is figured out at a low rate of over 5 hrs or 20 hours, depending on the rating.  So the usable power in a lead-acid bank is less than the nominal rating so you have to figure this into your calculations, and get more batteries to counter this effect.

Under load the voltage of lead-acids sag noticeably, and also sag as the battery discharges.  As the voltage sags the motor will draw more current to get the same power, so the amps get sucked out of lead-acid battery even faster as the capacity diminishes or as you give it more throttle.  And this is on top of the peukert effect.  The LFP batteries show little voltage drop under high current and also the discharge curve is very flat until the battery reaches about 5% capacity when its voltage drops off very quickly.

When recharging a lead-acid battery it typically has a charge efficiency factor of about 90% - that is, only about 90% of the power you put in is actually stored in the battery and available for later use.  With LFPs is very close to 100%.  This is especially important with solar recharge - it means you need 10% less solar panels for the same energy storage, or for the same solar capability, you can recharge quicker.

When you consider the peukert effect, which could be about 20%, and the charge efficiency factor or about 10%, the total loss of energy in the energy-in/energy-out equation is about 30%.  So the total effect on solar panel requirements is that you need 30% less when working with LFP batteries.  (or you recover the charge 30% faster)

When you take a look at the prices of LFP batteries, it can be daunting.  But when you consider available energy, as opposed to nominal capacity, the price is not so bad.  And if you consider lifecycle costs they are actually cheaper than lead-acids.  For details, take a look at my analysis here http://currentsunshine.com/?page_id=10

There is a downside to this.  The technology is new, and the some of the figures, such as number if cycles, are manufacturer's claims rather than well proven information.

Charging from solar sources is not easily handled with off-the-shelf items so you need to be handy to be able to cobble together the right charge controller and battery management system.  I'd be happy to guide you though from my experience so far.

On my boat I have just added a 1kva portable genset and 10 amp charger to use as emergency backup - in my case I'm using the boat in coastal waters, and there could be safety issues with having enough power for crossing barred river entrances and so on.  So I've added this backup system to cover those possibilities.  But for your case of protected inland waterways, and leisurely cruising, such a backup is hardly necessary.

Cheers

Chris


On 29/01/2010, at 11:44 PM, hardy71uk wrote:

 

theres an extensive canal network here in UK. I've often thought it would be great to do a leuisurely trip . stopping for a while to explore an area whilst charging batteries from solar panels and then moving on. The problem would seem to be that if charging over say a week or two that the batteries would most of the time be only partly charged . Is this a fast way to kill lead acid batteries or would a slow charge resist sulphation?
I'm guessing that a better regime would be to just do a few miles per day using a small depth of charge. Any comments?


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Re: [Electric Boats] Outboard conversion question

 

You would want to fit a larger / higher pitch prop to take advantage of the electric motor's higher torque, lower RPM.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:49 AM
Subject: [Electric Boats] Outboard conversion question

 

In the Photo section, in the "Default Club Album", there is a photo of an outboard motor conversion (top row, second from right) to electric. Now, from what I've been able to determine, an outboard engine turns over at anywhere from a few thousand RPM to as much as 5 or 6 thousand, while most electric motors top out at 2500 RPM or so. Can someone tell me how this seeming disparity in input speed equates to output? What electric motors would be appropriate for this type of conversion? Thanks

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[Electric Boats] Dedicated start battery questions

 

My Electric Lagoon 410 has 3 "house" batteries along with its massive 144v bank. The Genset (16kw)start and windloss are also attached to this house bank. Both the Genset and the windloss are in the bow compartments and the house bank is in the stern, about 20' away. When starting the Genset I momentarily loose power to the NAV equipment which I know isn't good for the equipment. I may have an issue with the house batteries, I'm not sure how old they are and haven't had time this winter to test them. My thinking here is to add a Genset/windloss battery at the genset to run off the Alternator which I also am not sure what it's charging since the house bank has a 144v/12/ converter/charger to them and I don't see anyway the alternator is connected to the bank (still working on the wiring diagrams). My other problem is I don't have a good flat mounting pont at the Genset to mount a battery. So the questions are:
Is one 12v 90AH battery enough for the 2 devices?
Can the genset Alternator handle the load (75a)of typical windloss?
Can I just wire the Windloss to the battery through its relay?
I guess I'm going to have to build a shelf for the battery, mount it in a box and strap it down?
Since it's a genset can the block be used as a ground for the battery?

Thanks for any input!

Steve in Solomons MD

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[Electric Boats] Outboard conversion question

 

In the Photo section, in the "Default Club Album", there is a photo of an outboard motor conversion (top row, second from right) to electric. Now, from what I've been able to determine, an outboard engine turns over at anywhere from a few thousand RPM to as much as 5 or 6 thousand, while most electric motors top out at 2500 RPM or so. Can someone tell me how this seeming disparity in input speed equates to output? What electric motors would be appropriate for this type of conversion? Thanks

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Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

 

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Electric Boats] solar canal rambling

Check out Delta-Q  chargers.  I believe they say they are >90% efficient.  No connection to me but I have used a couple of them.  Designed by a Canadian company but, sadly, made in China.
 
Denny

Capt. Mike,

I am planning a similar backup with a Honda generator. I was surprised to find that the on-board chargers, in general, are so inefficient. Minn-kota's MK 460, a four bank, 15 amp charger is the best I have found, so far. They told me it draws 8 amps at 120v ac and the ac must be sinusoidal, which I think the Honda EU series is. This means 960 watts in and 750 watts out, about 78% efficiency. Other vendors were more in the range of 60%. I was hoping to use the Honda EU1000 (for size and weight) but that looks like it will be calling it too close. I would think that with today's technology, we should be able to get closer to 90%. Did you find anything better? I will be charging a series of eight 6 volt wet cells. 
Ned


On Jan 29, 2010, at 9:22 AM, Mike wrote:

 

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